Ukraine Crisis

[THE_TITAN]

Putin is playing a dangerous game here getting involved in Crimea. It's a pretty dire and unpredictable situation in Ukraine right now, I just hope it is resolved peacefully. But to undermine the sovereignty of Ukraine in such a blatant fashion is a surprising move even for someone as careless as Mr. Putin.

[THE_TITAN]

So a little under 12 hours to war then?  The only question appears to be whether Russia fires first or is able to successfully spook Ukraine into doing so.

Personally, I think the Ukrainians may well surrrender. It's the sensible thing to do now; there are too many Russian forces in Crimea.

Agreed, the should surrender for the moment. But let's not forget that Ukraine doesn't have some mickey mouse armed forces, their army is pretty strong and well-resourced. Russia would be foolish to enter into conflict.

[THE_TITAN]

So a little under 12 hours to war then?  The only question appears to be whether Russia fires first or is able to successfully spook Ukraine into doing so.

Personally, I think the Ukrainians may well surrrender. It's the sensible thing to do now; there are too many Russian forces in Crimea.

Agreed, the should surrender for the moment. But let's not forget that Ukraine doesn't have some mickey mouse armed forces, their army is pretty strong and well-resourced. Russia would be foolish to enter into conflict.

Better than Georgia, but they're not brilliant. While the Russians would take casualties, they'd still win.

The Ukrainian ambassador to the EU has said they will push for Russia to lose its World Cup place.

Oh, no doubt Russia would win but Ukraine's armed forces comprises of 130,000 troops, over 1,000 tanks, 221 planes and 17 combat vessels according to the BBC. It would lose but do some damage.

[THE_TITAN]

So a little under 12 hours to war then?  The only question appears to be whether Russia fires first or is able to successfully spook Ukraine into doing so.

Personally, I think the Ukrainians may well surrrender. It's the sensible thing to do now; there are too many Russian forces in Crimea.

Agreed, the should surrender for the moment. But let's not forget that Ukraine doesn't have some mickey mouse armed forces, their army is pretty strong and well-resourced. Russia would be foolish to enter into conflict.

Russians in Donetsk, Kharkiv dont want this fascist ukrainian government.

Plus there are rumblings in Riga, Vilnius with the ethnic russians.

If they are Russians then they should move back to Russia. Who are they to tell the Ukrainian people what to do? Ukrainian people have rallied in Kiev for a pro-European government, yes it takes the form of a (mainly) centre-right coalition, but it hardly makes them fascists as you put it. If anyone is acting like a fascist it is Mr. Putin for not respecting sovereign territory and invading for expansionist purposes.

[THE_TITAN]

I think there is alot of ignorance on here. Ukrainians and Russians view each other as brothers and sisters. They both dont want to fight, they both dont want to shoot bullets at each other.

However, the DISPUTE is the ukrainians occupying kiev. These are from the austria-hungarian empire part of ukraine that have been bought up for generations hating russians. The media is not doing a good job at explaining this.

Donetsk, Kharkiv and Crimea want russian troops in  the country. Its like the falkland islands, gibraltor for the British. If the russians went back, the ethnic russians would feel terrified.

This is a situation created by american money funding fascists in ukraine to remove a democratically elected leader. Its completely unacceptable and this is why putin will not stand down. He will protect the ethnic russians like britain would defend the falkland islands.

What a load of old tosh. You speak for all Ukrainians that they view Russians as their brothers and sisters? HA! I would challenge you to say that to Crimean Tatar or the family of one of those shot on Kiev for demonstrating against closer ties to Russia.

It's nothing like the Falklands or Gibraltar because they are British Overseas Territories. Ukraine is a sovereign nation, Russia doesn't own it as much as they don't own Latvia or Lithuania. To argue against this would be stupid.

Ethnic Russians can go move to Russia if they are so loved by Mr. Putin. I hardly think a nation wanting to join the EU will be implementing harsh policies against that section of the populace if they actually want to gain accession.

I've never heard so much rubbish in my life, well except from people like Peter Hitchens.

[THE_TITAN]

So a little under 12 hours to war then?  The only question appears to be whether Russia fires first or is able to successfully spook Ukraine into doing so.

Personally, I think the Ukrainians may well surrrender. It's the sensible thing to do now; there are too many Russian forces in Crimea.

Agreed, the should surrender for the moment. But let's not forget that Ukraine doesn't have some mickey mouse armed forces, their army is pretty strong and well-resourced. Russia would be foolish to enter into conflict.

Russians in Donetsk, Kharkiv dont want this fascist ukrainian government.

Plus there are rumblings in Riga, Vilnius with the ethnic russians.

If they are Russians then they should move back to Russia. Who are they to tell the Ukrainian people what to do? Ukrainian people have rallied in Kiev for a pro-European government, yes it takes the form of a (mainly) centre-right coalition, but it hardly makes them fascists as you put it. If anyone is acting like a fascist it is Mr. Putin for not respecting sovereign territory and invading for expansionist purposes.

You have no understanding of russia or its former states. The bigotry towards ethnic russians has been going on since 1991.

Donetsk Kharkiv are completely different to Lviv and Kiev. Donetsk and Kharkiv view russians and ukrainians as brothers and sisters. They speak the same language, religion and celebrate the same customs. Lviv and Kiev dont. Lviv is a former state of the austrian-hungarian empire. The have hated russians for generations.

Look at a map of europe before ww1 and see that ukraine is a mixture of empires and this is why there are massive cultural differences.

You cant tell the people of Donetsk and Kharkiv that they are ukrainian when the majority live in total fear.

Your sounding a lot like Milosevic. "Ethnic Russians", historical disputes etc. etc. I hardly think the people of Donetsk are living in fear, their city has received significant investment over the last decade, look at their football team for example.

[THE_TITAN]

I think there is alot of ignorance on here. Ukrainians and Russians view each other as brothers and sisters. They both dont want to fight, they both dont want to shoot bullets at each other.

However, the DISPUTE is the ukrainians occupying kiev. These are from the austria-hungarian empire part of ukraine that have been bought up for generations hating russians. The media is not doing a good job at explaining this.

Donetsk, Kharkiv and Crimea want russian troops in  the country. Its like the falkland islands, gibraltor for the British. If the russians went back, the ethnic russians would feel terrified.

This is a situation created by american money funding fascists in ukraine to remove a democratically elected leader. Its completely unacceptable and this is why putin will not stand down. He will protect the ethnic russians like britain would defend the falkland islands.

What a load of old tosh. You speak for all Ukrainians that they view Russians as their brothers and sisters? HA! I would challenge you to say that to Crimean Tatar or the family of one of those shot on Kiev for demonstrating against closer ties to Russia.

It's nothing like the Falklands or Gibraltar because they are British Overseas Territories. Ukraine is a sovereign nation, Russia doesn't own it as much as they don't own Latvia or Lithuania. To argue against this would be stupid.

Ethnic Russians can go move to Russia if they are so loved by Mr. Putin. I hardly think a nation wanting to join the EU will be implementing harsh policies against that section of the populace if they actually want to gain accession.

I've never heard so much rubbish in my life, well except from people like Peter Hitchens.

Get your passport go to donetsk, kharkiv and crimea and ask for yourselves what these people want.

You're going off on a complete tangent where your argument is based on emotion (which cannot be verified) and isolated incidences in other countries. And quite frankly it depends what person you ask in those regions, I think the majority would just want peace and those that do not would have significantly differing views e.g. the ethnic Russians and Crimean Tatars in Crimea. Stop basing your argument on historical disputes and personal experiences and start realizing that this issue is much bigger. It's an issue of the respect of sovereignty and the invasion of a nation by an external power.

[THE_TITAN]

So a little under 12 hours to war then?  The only question appears to be whether Russia fires first or is able to successfully spook Ukraine into doing so.

Personally, I think the Ukrainians may well surrrender. It's the sensible thing to do now; there are too many Russian forces in Crimea.

Agreed, the should surrender for the moment. But let's not forget that Ukraine doesn't have some mickey mouse armed forces, their army is pretty strong and well-resourced. Russia would be foolish to enter into conflict.

Russians in Donetsk, Kharkiv dont want this fascist ukrainian government.

Plus there are rumblings in Riga, Vilnius with the ethnic russians.

If they are Russians then they should move back to Russia. Who are they to tell the Ukrainian people what to do? Ukrainian people have rallied in Kiev for a pro-European government, yes it takes the form of a (mainly) centre-right coalition, but it hardly makes them fascists as you put it. If anyone is acting like a fascist it is Mr. Putin for not respecting sovereign territory and invading for expansionist purposes.

You have no understanding of russia or its former states. The bigotry towards ethnic russians has been going on since 1991.

Donetsk Kharkiv are completely different to Lviv and Kiev. Donetsk and Kharkiv view russians and ukrainians as brothers and sisters. They speak the same language, religion and celebrate the same customs. Lviv and Kiev dont. Lviv is a former state of the austrian-hungarian empire. The have hated russians for generations.

Look at a map of europe before ww1 and see that ukraine is a mixture of empires and this is why there are massive cultural differences.

You cant tell the people of Donetsk and Kharkiv that they are ukrainian when the majority live in total fear.

Your sounding a lot like Milosevic. "Ethnic Russians", historical disputes etc. etc. I hardly think the people of Donetsk are living in fear, their city has received significant investment over the last decade, look at their football team for example.

your telling people of crimea, kharkiv and donestsk that they have to live with these thugs in kiev who hate russians.

Last I checked those places were in Ukraine, if they love Russia so much why don't they move there? If they are so scared why don't they move?!?! Your argument is baseless and reminiscent of those Milosevic put forward on the Kosovo crisis.

[THE_TITAN]

I'm half Bulgarian and for all it's issues it doesn't come close to Ukraine. Bulgaria is a tiny landmass with quite a small population, it's easily manageable, Ukraine is the exact opposite.