Your STV vote: Netherlands 2017

[DavidB.]

[13] 50Plus
[6 ] CDA
[7] ChristenUnie
[10] D66
[15] DENK
[2] Forum voor Democratie
[14] GroenLinks
[9] Piratenpartij
[12] PvdA
[8 ] PvdD
[1] PVV
[3] SGP
[11] SP
[4] VoorNederland
[5] VVD

[DavidB.]

[1] SP
[2] Pirate Party
[3] PvdA
[4] D66
[5] PvdD
[6] 50Plus
[7] GroenLinks
[8] CDA
[9] ChristenUnie
[10] VVD
[11] DENK
[12] Forum for Democracy
[13] PVV
[14] VoorNederland
[15] SGP

You would never vote D66 (who will cut back on healthcare more than the VVD, want a much more flexible labor market and are pro-TTIP) over PvdD, who are left-wing anti-globalists and basically vote along with the SP on anything.

[] 50Plus
[3] CDA
[2] ChristenUnie
[] D66
[] DENK
[] Forum for Democracy
[] GroenLinks
[] Pirate Party
[] PvdA
[] PvdD
[] PVV
[2] SGP
[] SP
[5] VoorNederland
[4] VVD

Which one first, which one second?

[8] CDA
[7] ChristenUnie
[10] D66
[2] Forum for Democracy
[9] Pirate Party
[1] PVV
[4] SGP
[3] SP
[5] VoorNederland
[6] VVD

SP at #3? Your politics are similar to mine nowadays, and while I sympathize with Roemer, the fact of the matter is that this is not America and our welfare state is already huge. The party also votes along with PvdA and GL on matters regarding immigration all the time, despite not being vocal about it because their base don't like it.

1.   Ancilla <3
2.   VVD
3.   SGP
4.   D66
5.   CDA
6.   PvdA
7.   GroenLinks
8.   ChristenUnie
9.   PvdD
10.   PVV
11.   50Plus
12.   Forum for Democracy
13.   VNL
14.   SP
15.   DENK

Why CU and VNL so low? Seems to me you'd definitely prefer CU over GL, and VNL's economic views fit yours to a T, which would probably be a pretty important point for you if you lived here, since taxes are very high here.

[DavidB.]

My knowledge of recent Dutch politics is very limited. My impression was that the SP was still a party of the anti-globalization left, as it was when Agnes Kant was leader.

Yeah, this is the story foreign media always come up with, and I don't know how often I've had to dispel the fiction that the SP are against mass immigration or somehow different than their counterparts in other Western European countries. Gastarbeid en Kapitaal, written in the 80s, was critical of immigration, but since the SP entered parliament in the 1990s they have always voted along with the other left-wing parties when it comes to immigration, integration and crime. In 2006, the SP did not win 26 seats on a platform of less immigration: they rather employed the tactic of being silent about the issue (they know their base doesn't like what they do) and if asked about it attribute all disparities between Dutch and immigrants to socio-economic inequality. Not convincing to someone like me and, I would think, to someone like you. They can come back when they genuinely become critical of immigration. Other than that they are, indeed, part of the anti-globalization left, but if that means opening the borders to all of the third world and erasing our culture anyway, then I'm having none of it.

[DavidB.]

Probably the wrong place to ask this, but who is the SP's base any way? Are thez *shudder* actually working class?

My impression of Europe's hard left parties is that they tend to be mostly supported by middle class lefties, but GL seem to have that demographic in the Netherlands.

Yeah, SP voters are often working class, and many live outside the urban West (though they also do decently in many industrial or post-industrial areas in the urban West). They especially do well in the poor northeast and in the southeast, where voters are dealigned and the populist, activist SP has much more appeal than the middle-class, socially progressive, "Amsterdam" PvdA, whose base is much more middle-class than, say, that of the German SPD.

I do think the European hard left is relatively often supported by "real" working-class people.

[DavidB.]

Does anyone know the positions of the Dutch Libertarian Party? Are they radical, considering that classical liberalism is already pretty well represented in Dutch politics?

I know a lot about this party. They have had a lot of infighting over the last couple years. Its 2012 incarnation (which received a disappointing 4,000 or so votes), for which I voted last time around, was very much a "big tent" party, with the idea to unite libertarians of all stripes in order to change things. Note that libertarians in the Netherlands, for obvious reasons, are more likely to be real minarchists or ancaps than just "lol weed" people. Afterwards the "cultural right" took over. However, due to both evolution in the discourse (and people's political positions) and the Trump revolution a lot of these people became alt-righters rather than real libertarians. Meanwhile, nothing really happened in the party, which had lost a lot of its active members (and we're talking about a very small number of people here in the first place: not hard to become an LP board member...). Nowadays the party has been taken over by the "cultural left" / anti-nationalists, who want to leave the EU and NATO but also support open borders, immigration, globalization etc. A poll in a closed Facebook group indicated that most libertarians are actually going to vote for the Forum voor Democratie rather than for the LP this time around, which will certainly partly be due to the fact that the party has shifted to embracing multiculturalism and extreme anti-militarism (most of today's active members used to be left-wingers before joining the LP), and I fully expect them to receive fewer votes than in 2012. This entire saga has really convinced me that left-libertarians and right-libertarians may hold almost the exact same views, but that they still may not find that much common ground.

[DavidB.]

Curious what you think of my choices.
[6] 50Plus
[8] CDA
[2] ChristenUnie
[9] D66
[15] DENK
[11] Forum for Democracy
[3] GroenLinks
[5] Pirate Party
[7] PvdA
[4] PvdD
[13] PVV
[14] SGP
[1] SP
[12] VoorNederland
[10] VVD

They broadly make sense to me, logically. Not sure about GroenLinks over PvdD (but could be), also not sure how you can have the SGP this low while having CU that high, but it's possible if their views on women are truly a dealbreaker to you. Oh, and having 50Plus that high doesn't really make sense. They are not "left wing" and at least you'd prefer to vote PvdA and CDA over them.

[DavidB.]

Well, the point is that many of you guys' votes are just very idiosyncratic. They may represent your opinions quite accurately, and I think many of you have understood what these parties broadly stand for, but an actual Dutch VVD voter who is also fine with CDA would almost never prefer to vote for the SP over the SGP (though GL and perhaps the PvdA over the SGP are more believable). Most people's preferences broadly follow a certain pattern where left-wing parties are preferenced first and right-wing parties afterwards, or the other way around.

Having VNL at 5 and FvD at 14 seems strange to me: these parties have highly similar views, the only difference is their focus and their leadership. I do think VNL's focus may suit your views more, but you'd probably still support FvD over many other parties. And you'd almost certainly prefer any party over DENK (unless you somehow happen to be Turkish and an Erdogan supporter), with the possible exception of the PVV.

[DavidB.]

Oh, I was not only talking about you, by the way. You're right: the CDA are barely still willing to say they are Christians whereas SGP still officially aim to make the Netherlands a theocracy. The CDA are a catch-all party (secular people also vote for them) and they are very close to the VVD nowadays, the main difference is focus (family values, respect etc.). They are easily each others' most preferred coalition partner. SGP are "borderline theocratic" but that will never happen since most people would never vote for them and their base is small, and they are a constructive right-wing partner to any government. They are also staunchly atlanticist and pro-defense. They will never be able to abolish any of the progressive legislation that has been passed over the last decades.

I'd say VNL are more similar to the PVV than FvD, though both share some important similarities (EU, immigration) and have their differences (tone, style, focus, electorate, economic views).