POTUS to Abbas: YOU TRICKED ME! THE ISRAELIS HAVE SHOWN ME HOW YOU ROLL! (user search)
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  POTUS to Abbas: YOU TRICKED ME! THE ISRAELIS HAVE SHOWN ME HOW YOU ROLL! (search mode)
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Author Topic: POTUS to Abbas: YOU TRICKED ME! THE ISRAELIS HAVE SHOWN ME HOW YOU ROLL!  (Read 3496 times)
SATW
SunriseAroundTheWorld
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,463
United States
« on: May 29, 2017, 06:25:02 PM »

Well, this thread went to **** on page two as soon as the denialists and libelers stepped in.

We know you want us spread out in the diaspora so we can't put up a fight. That's why it's never happening again.

you mean like what your people did to mine and stole our land? where my family home is now an Israeli family lives while I still own the key to that property my grandfather was kicked out of? You have no blood ties to that land you just use a religious fantasy to claim to it, I have actual DNA ties to the land. I highly doubt someone of European descent does.

And before the trolls and butthurt Pro-Israeli's come and accuse me of hating Jews, no I don't my former fiance was Jewish.

Israel is the final product of European occupation and colonization of my people and the rest of the Arab world that still remains.

Literally the dumbest argument ever. "I have a black friend, therefore I'm not racist!" Roll Eyes FTR, you are far from an antisemite, so anyone accusing you of this is being melodramatic.

Also, your complete lack of knowledge on Jewish DNA is hilarious. Almost every Jew has some sort of DNA connection to the Middle East. Including Ashkenazi Jews.

I think Ethiopian Jews and Indian Jews have the least strong connection to the Middle East, but it is still there.

I'm a Mizrahi/Sephardic Jew (aka unquestionable connections to the region), so get out of here with your "no ties to the middle east" nonsense.

Also, as both of us know, there has been a history of trying to partition the land for two peoples, two states. The Arabs, however, screwed you guys over by illegally invading Israel in 1948-1949.

They further screwed you over by refusing to grant you your own state in Gaza and the West Bank anywhere during 1949-1967. But, please, tell me more how Israel is to blame for all of your problems Roll Eyes

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SATW
SunriseAroundTheWorld
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,463
United States
« Reply #1 on: May 29, 2017, 06:26:08 PM »

Well, this thread went to **** on page two as soon as the denialists and libelers stepped in.

We know you want us spread out in the diaspora so we can't put up a fight. That's why it's never happening again.

you mean like what your people did to mine and stole our land? where my family home is now an Israeli family lives while I still own the key to that property my grandfather was kicked out of? You have no blood ties to that land you just use a religious fantasy to claim to it, I have actual DNA ties to the land. I highly doubt someone of European descent does.

And before the trolls and butthurt Pro-Israeli's come and accuse me of hating Jews, no I don't my former fiance was Jewish.

Israel is the final product of European occupation and colonization of my people and the rest of the Arab world that still remains.
And hopefully it will remain so for the rest of time.

You are not helping.

1. Israel isn't a colonial state.
2. Israel isn't a European state.


I appreciate your strong support for Israel but please don't fall into the Anti-Israel clown car's traps. I can provide you with some good comebacks against their B.S. if you would like Smiley
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SATW
SunriseAroundTheWorld
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,463
United States
« Reply #2 on: May 29, 2017, 06:35:46 PM »

FTR - as always, I am open to discussing the peace process and my views on it. I like to think that on this topic that I have opened myself up to debate more than any other topic.

My main principles and views:

- I am a Zionist, in the mold of Ze'ev Jabotinsky and Menachem Begin
- I am a moderate on social/religious issues in Israel. (I support LGBT rights, I support a balance between secular and Orthodox Jewish interests. I support very limited concessions to theologically liberal Jewish denominations.)
- I am a far-right winger on Israeli economic issues. (Free Market economics is very foreign in Israel, as its history is tied to social democratic policies and, formerly, socialist politics. )
- I am a Likud-style hawk on National Security and Middle East Peace
- I am, generally, center to center-right on the Settlements (meaning, I support the Settlements, generally, but from a secular/strategic viewpoint and not a religious one, which means I'm more willing to give up land for peace than some other right-wingers.)
- I am very much in favor of keeping Jerusalem as Israel's united and undivided capital. I take this view from a religious and strategic viewpoint. Israel cannot be representative of Judaism and Jewishness without the Old City. Israel is also the best party to safeguard religious rights for ALL religions in East Jerusalem + the Old City.
 
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SATW
SunriseAroundTheWorld
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,463
United States
« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2017, 07:25:58 PM »

1. Literally no Jewish Zionist on this website, or any that I associate with in real life, has ever called for the extermination of the Palestinians. So end your delusional ranting right there. You are speaking to mainstream Zionists, not Kahanists or JDL-supporters.

2. Of course you wanted a binational state, because Jews did sooo well culturally with dhimmi status in other Muslim-ruled countries Roll Eyes These very same host countries will continue to claim that Jews had it just great and dandy under their rule but always leave out that there were certain caveats and restrictions on the Jews (and Christians) in those countries. A Binational state would have never have worked, and you know it. Perfect example of Dhimmi status hurting Jews: Morocco's monarchy has good relations w/ Jews, but the average Moroccan hates most Jews.

3. I don't have to prove that my family owned land anywhere. You brought up DNA/blood ties and you brought up ties to the land. You didn't specify what you meant by this and you will look foolish if you want to move the goal posts on defining that term. My family might not have had land in Pre-Modern state Israel, but countless of other families did (During Ottoman rule and Pre-Ottoman rule). This includes mizrahi and ashkenazi families.

Areas like Tel Aviv (est. 1909) were pretty much spaces of nothing before Jewish settlement. And again, a lot of these places were legitimate due to those pieces of land were either owned by the Ottomans (later sold by Jews) or were populated under British rule after the fall of the Ottoman empire.

There was never a country called Palestine, it was a geographic area and a British mandate. Palestinians are virtually distinguishable from other Arab populations in the region. It is not its own separate ethnicity. However, it is pretty much recognized that a national identity had formed AFTER 1949 (particularly in the 1960s).

There were Jews and Zionists who identified under the "Palestinian" moniker during and immediately after WW2, due to it being the name of the British mandate/Geographic area.

So, I find it funny that Palestinians are falsely accusing Jews of not being a nation. We are an ethnic religion. It is well documented fact. And unlike the Palestinians, we have thousands of years of evidence to prove our religion and our ethnicity. You, yourself, admitted it by differentiating Ashkenazi and Mizrahi. If Jews weren't an ethnicity, it would be ridiculous to differentiate the two as they aren't denominations of Judaism. An Orthodox Ashkenazi Jew can pray at an Orthodox Mizrahi/Sephardic Synagogue and vice versa.

4. Colonization, often times, is used as a term to attack people who took over an area to which they had virtually no ties too. As I already mentioned, this doesn't apply to Zionists or Jews as we all have a historical, religious, cultural and DNA-based tie to the Middle East, Jerusalem, Hebron and other areas.

We had every right to try and bring in Jews during a time of cultural and political persecution of Jews (which, of course, Arabs contributed too, via dhimmi laws and also through Muftis aligned with Hitler). but even (ESPECIALLY) without the holocaust we had a right to do so as there was no country on this land. It was a territory that has been passed around from empire to empire.

5. Your irrational hatred of Israel is a perfect example of why the Palestinians don't have a state. We had lost our country and homeland for thousands of years and were not bitter. We were vanquished into obscurity for centuries and were discriminated against for almost as much time. We did not let our bad past stop us from having a prosperous future. The Palestinians are doing the exact opposite. You have had MANY opportunities to have your own state and your corrupt, terroristic leadership has burdened you by rejecting each offer for peace and statehood.

6. LOL at accusing Israeli settlements of being purist. MANY Palestinian leaders have claimed that they want a Jew-less Palestinian state. This is very well documented. Nothing is stopping Israeli-Arabs from moving to Israeli settlements. Literally nothing. But, non-citizen Arabs, of course, have no right to move into settlements.

Citation:
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-israel-palestinians-settlements-idUSKBN0JL0D620141207 (this actually claims that non-citizen Arabs are moving in as well, interestingly enough.)

Citation: http://www.weeklystandard.com/what-the-plo-ambassador-said-about-removing-jews-from-a-palestinian-state/article/594117 This is in comparison to Israel, who in almost every proposal, has never claimed to want to cleanse its borders of Arabs. Maybe one politician or party may have said it here and there, but no major politician has proposed to throw out every Arab from Israel after a finalized peace process. Only the Palestinians have said that...about Jews.

7. On people losing their land during the War of Independence: It is a sad reality of almost every conflict in literally almost every war. Like I said, Arab nations screwed over the Palestinians by invading Israel. Some willingly left their lands hoping the Jews would lose, others ran away once Israel beat our Arab armies in their cities, others were forced out as a consequence of war.

8. Hamas is only responsible for the suffering of Gazan Palestinians. Israel withdrew in 2005. Hamas, after being elected, decided to further engage in terrorism. Hamas decided to invest in terrorism instead of economics, culture and living standards/environmental sustainability. Denying this is tantamount to defending the actions of a terrorist organization. Israel didn't force Hamas to launch rockets into Israel. Hamas did that on its own.

9.
Palestinians are not barred from entering Israel. This is a blatant lie. Many Palestinians work in Israel at Israeli businesses, and like ALL Israelis (including Jews), go through legitimate security checkpoints.

10. Finally, your ridiculous claim that you welcomed us as "guests." If a conservative opposed to legal or illegal immigration said this he or she would be called a bigot. And, also, as discussed, you didn't get to decide who was or who wasn't a guest or permanent resident. There was no country called Palestine.





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SATW
SunriseAroundTheWorld
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,463
United States
« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2017, 08:37:27 PM »

When the Palestinian government sanctions and supports the blowing up of random Sbarros and businesses, I can't say its hard to understand why Israelis have been becoming less optimistic about the future of the peace process.

Last I checked, Israel doesn't pay the family of Baruch Goldstein (a terrorist) while Abbas approves payments to the families of terrorists who attack Jews and other Israelis.

That being said, of course, some of these views are not good things, but it was only ~20 years when a vast majority of Israelis were marching for peace in Tel Aviv and other cities.

All the while Arafat was playing them all for fools.

Yes, many Israeli Jews don't want to live near Arabs because at the same time many Israeli Arabs want to see the destruction of Israel and also self-segregate themselves into cities with little to no Jewish populations.

https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/international/middle-east/137783-170216-poll-reveals-majority-of-israelis-palestinians-in-favor-of-two-state-solution

A majority of Israelis still support a two-state solution, and a large amount of Palestinians do as well. So, your claim that there will never be peace is not based on anything.
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SATW
SunriseAroundTheWorld
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,463
United States
« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2017, 08:57:07 PM »

I'm not even accusing you of anything, just laying out the facts from an Israeli perspective. Though if you have a hard time trusting Jews you may have some issues... I'm not a Netanyahu supporter, so you may wish to find someone else to send him your regards.

I like how #TSA ignores that barely any new settlements have actually been built. It's just been continued construction in settlements have already been in existence.

But, #TSA is not interested in a solution, regardless of the settlement situation. I've debated many people, in person and online, on this topic and he's in the majority of those I've debated that jumping all over the place logically.

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SATW
SunriseAroundTheWorld
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,463
United States
« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2017, 09:32:47 PM »

For the record, I wasn't even referring to him.

It's the other two (I believe) unaffiliated leftists who keep repeating anti-Israel blood libels wherever they go that make threads about this issue untenable. Of course, one is a Corbynista and the other has called Jews a "racist people", so no surprises there.

I give you credit for even responding to people like that. I have one of them (shadows) on ignore.
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