The Spank Poll

[A18]

Why don't they do interesting polls like this more often?

I wonder what the breakdown on the taxes/services tradeoff would be?

[A18]

Jess, I'm curious about what you perceive to be the difference between spanking and smacking, or slapping, that you find spanking to be OK, but not smacking.

This is in regards to slapping in the face.  My mother did it a few times, mostly out of anger, and it hurt, left red marks, brought tears to my eyes, etc.  Maybe no different from spanking in terms of those symptoms, but ... I don't know ... you just don't hit a kid in the face.  A butt has so much more padding that spanking can be startling and sting for a bit, but if done in a measured way, it's ultimately harmless.  It's hard for me to ever justify an open-hand slap to the face.

I think it depends on the situation. I've seen some really annoying kids, that frankly need to have the **** beat out of them.

I was slapped as a child, and I think I turned out okay.

[A18]

Washing a child's mouth out...that sounds really freakish and disgusting. I've never hear of that being actually done here...although it probably was, at one time, since it exists as a proverbial expression (as a "command" to do that to yourself). Then again, at one time babies were put to sleep with concentrated poppyseed juice.

No one ever washed my mouth out with soap. However, I used to eat it, so I know it isn't that bad.

[A18]

Washing a child's mouth out...that sounds really freakish and disgusting. I've never hear of that being actually done here...although it probably was, at one time, since it exists as a proverbial expression (as a "command" to do that to yourself). Then again, at one time babies were put to sleep with concentrated poppyseed juice.

No one ever washed my mouth out with soap. However, I used to eat it, so I know it isn't that bad.

You ate soap? Why?

I'm a guy; I'm stupid.

[A18]

I was slapped as a child, and I think I turned out okay.

Well, with all respect, just because something didn't profoundly screw you up for life doesn't mean it was a necessary or good idea.

Like I said, I think it depends on the situation. Some kids simply won't listen.

I was only slapped because my mother was mentally ill, though. I only pointed it out to show that it doesn't necessarily traumatize you.

[A18]

Spanking a kid for hitting another kid might strike a three-year-old as a mite contradictory.  "It's not right to hit someone you like, so I'm going to hit you because of it"?  How do you answer questions about how that makes sense to a three-year-old?

How hard is it to distinguish between retaliation and initiation?

I think they yelled the answer at me, and hit me again. Surprise surprise, I quit asking.

[A18]

Spanking a kid for hitting another kid might strike a three-year-old as a mite contradictory.  "It's not right to hit someone you like, so I'm going to hit you because of it"?  How do you answer questions about how that makes sense to a three-year-old?

How hard is it to distinguish between retaliation and initiation?

But what the kid sees is his or herself not liking what the other kid did and punishing them for that; to them, that's the same thing the parent is doing.  Your point is well-taken, though.

Well, and by hitting the kid, you make it pretty clear that he shouldn't be punishing people.

[A18]

Spanking a kid for hitting another kid might strike a three-year-old as a mite contradictory.  "It's not right to hit someone you like, so I'm going to hit you because of it"?  How do you answer questions about how that makes sense to a three-year-old?

How hard is it to distinguish between retaliation and initiation?

But what the kid sees is his or herself not liking what the other kid did and punishing them for that; to them, that's the same thing the parent is doing.  Your point is well-taken, though.

Well, and by hitting the kid, you make it pretty clear that he shouldn't be punishing people.

But the kid can't understand why it is not right for a kid to do it but it is for an adult.  Which, really, is not an easy distinction for me to make now.

The kid may or may not be smart enough to distinguish between offense and defense. To be honest, I don't know if I knew either.

But the point, as I see, is not to get the kid to understand, but to get him to stop. If that works, you no longer have a problem.

[A18]

The thing is, you can't really 'explain' why something is 'wrong' anyway. All normative statements are just subjective preference. Thankfully, kids aren't smart enough to understand that, and by the time they're adults, hopefully they'll share your values to some real extent.

[A18]

Explain to me why it is any more right for a parent to do it to a child under the banner "violence is always wrong."

It can not be done. Nothing is objectively 'right' or 'wrong.'

[A18]

Explain to me why it is any more right for a parent to do it to a child under the banner "violence is always wrong."

It can not be done. Nothing is objectively 'right' or 'wrong.'

Let's avoid Opebo Metaphysics here.  Why do you think it is right, if you do?  We can always agree to disagree.

Uh, you think opebo made this up?

You can not extract a normative statement from a descriptive statement. The way things are tells us nothing about the way they ought to be, and so facts are useless for this discussion.

I'm simplying arguing in favor of what I think works.

[A18]

Explain to me why it is any more right for a parent to do it to a child under the banner "violence is always wrong."

It can not be done. Nothing is objectively 'right' or 'wrong.'

Let's avoid Opebo Metaphysics here.  Why do you think it is right, if you do?  We can always agree to disagree.

Uh, you think opebo made this up?

You can not extract a normative statement from a descriptive statement. The way things are tells us nothing about the way they ought to be, and so facts are useless for this discussion.

I'm simplying arguing in favor of what I think works.

I call it that because Opebo won't shut up about it.  If we never argued about subjective matters, we'd never argue at all.

No, it is merely moral matters we would not argue over, along with things like what the 'best' color is.

We could still argue over what will get this kid to stop, since that issue deals with how things are.

[A18]

No, it is merely moral matters we would not argue over, along with things like what the 'best' color is.

We could still argue over what will get this kid to stop, since that issue deals with how things are.

I don't really think this is a matter of morality.  I think it is a matter of what is an effective balance of being a good deterrent and not screwing up the kid.

You asked why it was okay for a parent to hit the kid, but not for the kid to hit another kid. That's a moral question; a matter of 'right' and 'wrong.'

Pain is generally a good deterrent. That's why it exists.

[A18]

We could still argue over what will get this kid to stop, since that issue deals with how things are.

How about abortion?

That's going to be pretty late term. We're talking about three year olds.

[A18]

The difference is that one gets the kid not to do a few specific things, and the other gets the kid to do absolutely nothing.

[A18]

Spanking a kid for hitting another kid might strike a three-year-old as a mite contradictory.  "It's not right to hit someone you like, so I'm going to hit you because of it"?  How do you answer questions about how that makes sense to a three-year-old?

How hard is it to distinguish between retaliation and initiation?

But what the kid sees is his or herself not liking what the other kid did and punishing them for that; to them, that's the same thing the parent is doing.  Your point is well-taken, though.

Well, and by hitting the kid, you make it pretty clear that he shouldn't be punishing people.

You also make it clear that violence merits violence.

The point is that he won't be practicing it.