Democratic National Convention **live commentary thread**

[ag]

If Hillary reneges on TPP, whether it's forced down our throats in the lame duck session or not, then her supporters really won't have an argument to keep Bernie supporters with her next election.  She's not doing it.

She will not have to. Obama will do everything

Not in the rollout.

Once it is the law, it is the law You know, Tim Kaine has always been against the death penalty....

And, trust me, no actual American would ever directly observe the rollout

So maybe I'll be voting for Trump in November anyway.

You should - as should every other right wing Republican, like you.

Sounds good to me.

Wonderful. Really hope you use the next 4 years to fully switch allegiance and will forever vote in the GOP primaries from now on.

[ag]

I am ashamed of the 43% of the democratic party that literally voted for a movement that is the beginning of America becoming China or Russia.

Bernie's proposed policies = China = Russia?

China and Russia are vastly different, and both are different than what he proposed.

Both are communist nations, Socialism is merely a step on the way to communism.

SOCIALISM IS NOT THE ANSWER BERNIE! SOCIALISM IS NOT THE ANSWER

Okay, I guess you're against the fire department, the police, national parks, public libraries, etc.

That isn't typically considered to fall under the umbrella of Socialism. Free education and health care does.

You can't pick and choose like that, economics isn't al a carte. If you pay tax dollars that are in turn used for services, that is socialism. When everyone pays a share, then it's socialism.

That is a definition you yourself invented. In the same spirit of individual definitional innovation I suggest another defintion: urinating is socialism. If you ever urinated in your life, you are a socialist.  You cannot pick and choose here: this is not a la carte.

BTW, what is a carte?

I cannot believe someone doesn't know what al a carte means. It's a French saying for picking separate items off of a menu without ordering an entire meal.

No, that would be "a la carte" (sorry for missing the accent on the first "a", my keybord is not set up for the frenchie ones, and a Spanish accent would be wrong here). I have no clue what "al a carte" is, though

[ag]

You need a real education and seriously. If there was no socialism involved in government, we'd have a completely capitalist economy with no taxes and where infrastructure was privately funded. I didn't invent a damn thing, you are lashing out at me because you don't understand economics and accusing me of just making up things. Get an education, get an education, get an education. You have been read.

Having been a professor of economics for, likely, almost as many years that you have been around, I am mildly amused

BTW, if you have not noticed, I am the moderator of the Economics board here

[ag]

You need a real education and seriously. If there was no socialism involved in government, we'd have a completely capitalist economy with no taxes and where infrastructure was privately funded. I didn't invent a damn thing, you are lashing out at me because you don't understand economics and accusing me of just making up things. Get an education, get an education, get an education. You have been read.

Having been a professor of economics for, likely, almost as many years that you have been around, I am mildly amused

BTW, if you have not noticed, I am the moderator of the Economics board here

Careful, AG, remember that Brexit happened and the easily manipulated hate experts now.

I am used to that

[ag]

You need a real education and seriously. If there was no socialism involved in government, we'd have a completely capitalist economy with no taxes and where infrastructure was privately funded. I didn't invent a damn thing, you are lashing out at me because you don't understand economics and accusing me of just making up things. Get an education, get an education, get an education. You have been read.

Having been a professor of economics for, likely, almost as many years that you have been around, I am mildly amused

BTW, if you have not noticed, I am the moderator of the Economics board here

I'm not in the habit of studying everyone's profile here. You need to brush up on your stuff. But then again, sometimes anyone can become a professor. I know a whole lot of people in professions and it's questionable how they got there.

Well, I can tell you my way. Double major in economics and mathematics in college. Than Ph.D. in economics - pretty damn standard

[ag]

I am ashamed of the 43% of the democratic party that literally voted for a movement that is the beginning of America becoming China or Russia.

Bernie's proposed policies = China = Russia?

China and Russia are vastly different, and both are different than what he proposed.

Both are communist nations, Socialism is merely a step on the way to communism.

SOCIALISM IS NOT THE ANSWER BERNIE! SOCIALISM IS NOT THE ANSWER

Okay, I guess you're against the fire department, the police, national parks, public libraries, etc.

That isn't typically considered to fall under the umbrella of Socialism. Free education and health care does.

You can't pick and choose like that, economics isn't al a carte. If you pay tax dollars that are in turn used for services, that is socialism. When everyone pays a share, then it's socialism.

That is a definition you yourself invented. In the same spirit of individual definitional innovation I suggest another defintion: urinating is socialism. If you ever urinated in your life, you are a socialist.  You cannot pick and choose here: this is not a la carte.

BTW, what is a carte?

I cannot believe someone doesn't know what al a carte means. It's a French saying for picking separate items off of a menu without ordering an entire meal.

No, that would be "a la carte" (sorry for missing the accent on the first "a", my keybord is not set up for the frenchie ones, and a Spanish accent would be wrong here). I have no clue what "al a carte" is, though

Nice cover.

You have not still noticed I have been making fun of your articles/prepositions from the very beginning? I mean, it must really be difficult in life to be so slow.

[ag]

There are plenty of idiots with PhDs and plenty of smart people with only a high school education.

Anyway, seeing as this has become yet another ag-bragging-about-his-dick thread, I'll be off.  G'night, folks.

Trump 2016!

So happy you have finally declared your right-wing allegiance!

In any case, it has been suggested above I get education, not smarts

[ag]

But then again, sometimes any random person off the street can become a professor and still not fully grasp what they have studied.

Nice edit. Unlike you, though, I have actually studied

[ag]

You need a real education and seriously. If there was no socialism involved in government, we'd have a completely capitalist economy with no taxes and where infrastructure was privately funded. I didn't invent a damn thing, you are lashing out at me because you don't understand economics and accusing me of just making up things. Get an education, get an education, get an education. You have been read.

Having been a professor of economics for, likely, almost as many years that you have been around, I am mildly amused

BTW, if you have not noticed, I am the moderator of the Economics board here

Careful, AG, remember that Brexit happened and the easily manipulated hate experts now.

"Experts". Economics aren't a science, it's the art of twisting numbers so they fit your narrative.

Do not judge by yourself, my dear sir

[ag]

I am ashamed of the 43% of the democratic party that literally voted for a movement that is the beginning of America becoming China or Russia.

Bernie's proposed policies = China = Russia?

China and Russia are vastly different, and both are different than what he proposed.

Both are communist nations, Socialism is merely a step on the way to communism.

SOCIALISM IS NOT THE ANSWER BERNIE! SOCIALISM IS NOT THE ANSWER

Okay, I guess you're against the fire department, the police, national parks, public libraries, etc.

That isn't typically considered to fall under the umbrella of Socialism. Free education and health care does.

You can't pick and choose like that, economics isn't al a carte. If you pay tax dollars that are in turn used for services, that is socialism. When everyone pays a share, then it's socialism.

That is a definition you yourself invented. In the same spirit of individual definitional innovation I suggest another defintion: urinating is socialism. If you ever urinated in your life, you are a socialist.  You cannot pick and choose here: this is not a la carte.

BTW, what is a carte?

I cannot believe someone doesn't know what al a carte means. It's a French saying for picking separate items off of a menu without ordering an entire meal.

No, that would be "a la carte" (sorry for missing the accent on the first "a", my keybord is not set up for the frenchie ones, and a Spanish accent would be wrong here). I have no clue what "al a carte" is, though

Nice cover.

You have not still noticed I have been making fun of your articles/prepositions from the very beginning? I mean, it must really be difficult in life to be so slow.

I really don't care, because you didn't even understand that government funding infrastructure in a way is socialist. I've never seen a Big Time Professor (or at least that's what you claim that you are) so focused on being 100% right on a message board. Shouldn't you be doing your job?

My point has been that, under your "definition", there has never been a non-socialist government. A definition that covers everything defines nothing. This is something that you should understand graduating from middle school at the latest. One does not have to be a "big time" whatever to point that out.

Remember, you are not one of my students and I am not teaching you. I am just having innocent fun at your expense.

[ag]

But then again, sometimes any random person off the street can become a professor and still not fully grasp what they have studied.

Nice edit. Unlike you, though, I have actually studied

I talk circles around people like you on a regular basis, including a political science professor who worked for Lawton Chiles. I've written a novel, run for office, served on two appointed committees (state and local) and I've helping to advise two political campaigns. Thanks for playing.

I can imagine how much fun everybody around you has had. Unless, I presume, they actually tried reading your novel

[ag]

Back to the DNC commentary, I thought Michelle Obama did a fantastic job!!!

I have always loved her from the very beginning. ]

Class act all the way.

She has done an admirable job overall.

[ag]

But then again, sometimes any random person off the street can become a professor and still not fully grasp what they have studied.

Nice edit. Unlike you, though, I have actually studied

I talk circles around people like you on a regular basis, including a political science professor who worked for Lawton Chiles. I've written a novel, run for office, served on two appointed committees (state and local) and I've helping to advise two political campaigns. Thanks for playing.

This isn't an ethos contest, dammit.

Ethos or egos?

Gentlemen, this is an English-language forum. Let us use the language correctly.

[ag]

But then again, sometimes any random person off the street can become a professor and still not fully grasp what they have studied.

Nice edit. Unlike you, though, I have actually studied

I talk circles around people like you on a regular basis, including a political science professor who worked for Lawton Chiles. I've written a novel, run for office, served on two appointed committees (state and local) and I've helping to advise two political campaigns. Thanks for playing.

I can imagine how much fun everybody around you has had. Unless, I presume, they actually tried reading your novel

If that makes you feel better, believe whatever you choose. What university do you work at? I'd really like to know who hired such a person. That's right, it's Trump University.

Nah, I am too Mexican for that

[ag]

If it makes you guys feel any better, you're both shtposters.

But then I am too.

If you insist that all fun smells badly....

[ag]

But then again, sometimes any random person off the street can become a professor and still not fully grasp what they have studied.

Nice edit. Unlike you, though, I have actually studied

I talk circles around people like you on a regular basis, including a political science professor who worked for Lawton Chiles. I've written a novel, run for office, served on two appointed committees (state and local) and I've helping to advise two political campaigns. Thanks for playing.

This isn't an ethos contest, dammit.

Ethos or egos?

Gentlemen, this is an English-language forum. Let us use the language correctly.

May as well be both, why not?

Has either of one discussed "ethos"? I mean, there has, lately, been some scatological discussion here, but that does not imply we have moved towards eschatology, has it?

[ag]

I guess, this is now appropriate:

[ag]

But then again, sometimes any random person off the street can become a professor and still not fully grasp what they have studied.

Nice edit. Unlike you, though, I have actually studied

I talk circles around people like you on a regular basis, including a political science professor who worked for Lawton Chiles. I've written a novel, run for office, served on two appointed committees (state and local) and I've helping to advise two political campaigns. Thanks for playing.

This isn't an ethos contest, dammit.

Ethos or egos?

Gentlemen, this is an English-language forum. Let us use the language correctly.

May as well be both, why not?

Has either of one discussed "ethos"? I mean, there has, lately, been some scatological discussion here, but that does not imply we have moved towards eschatology, has it?

Well I feel like the world's ending.

And you are, probably, right. At least, if Trump wins.

[ag]

Here's a definition no one here has probably ever seen https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mixed_economy

A mixed economy is not socialism. Socialism is not communism. Capitalism is not corporatism.

Look, this is a pretty minor issue. Aspects of the State are funded by all in a system that has similarities to socialism. That does not make the State socialist if it has a publicly funded police force or educational system, to name a couple of examples. Socialism is the State controlling the means of production. Capitalism is private individuals controlling the means of production. A mixed economy has elements of both. End of discussion.

But even that's not correct.  Socialism is defined by democratic control of the economy or decision-making powers of industry belonging to workers.  Capitalism is defined by decisions being made by the owners of capital and factors of production.

Not all socialism advocates democratic workplaces, though. All the catch all phrase advocates is the State and the community managing the means of production, which has multiple interpretations. This has lead to different socialist philosophies.

All socialists have claimed to support democratic workplaces, however. Even the Soviet Communists claimed that the state of affairs they created was not their end goal.

But they never claimed they wanted more democracy They had the REAL democracy. It was called democratic centralism: the Party represented the workers and the workers voluntarily supported decisions made in their interest by the central organs of the party It was just that, under socialism, it was still impossible to satisfy all the needs, as would be the case under communism. Though, as an old wisecrack went, under communism the signs in the store would notify consumers that today there is no need in butter.

Anyway, it is all entirely irrelevant for the discussion at hand

[ag]

In any case, just want to be clear. Sanders, in the end, did the honorable thing, and I commend him for it. Most of his supporters - those who, actually, belong in the party - will behave likewise.

Those who do not - well, the party (and Clinton candidacy) will be better without them. Like any insurgent movement, that of Sanders attracted many a strange type. Quite a few of them are no Democrats in any sense of the word. Trying to hold on to them is fool's gold: doing so would repell more people than it would attract.

Now that the first day is over, time to concentrate on the real business of the convention.

[ag]

We should get off Sanders's back: he did what he had to do.

At this point, the task is to drive the irreconcilables away with minimal cost.

[ag]

If you guys got through Dudabides and KCDEM, then you guys can handle me calling Bernie a socialist for a roll call duration.

I mean, Bernie Sanders has called himself a socialist. There is no (further) harm there.

[ag]

If you guys got through Dudabides and KCDEM, then you guys can handle me calling Bernie a socialist for a roll call duration.

I mean, Bernie Sanders has called himself a socialist himself. There is no (further) harm there.

So would it be fair to say then that he personally is a socialist, (of course his voters aren't), since why doesn't he call himself a social democrat??

Bernie Sanders is a self-identified (small-s) socialist. There is nothing really controversial there. I mean, in the subculture he was born into (1940s Jewish NYC) this is what used to be called "the right" ("the left" being communists).

[ag]

Great Governor!

[ag]

SPEAK ENGLISH

It is Puerto Rico.