Zombies, Parties, Elections, and Stuff

[Bacon King]

This is a post in response to DWTL. I think it needs its own thread because I really feel that this is beginning to ruin the game in a lot of ways. It's a bit ranty but still valid. Does anyone else feel this way?

The return to a party structure did which you guys kind of caused did, yeah, but that doesn't mean you won't also be the ones to kill it.

The only thing that could kill Atlasia is what doomed it prior to the RPP, liberals outnumbering conservatives 3 and 4 to 1.  Now that its only about 60/40 that's what is keeping the game interesting

There's nothing interesting about floods of zombies registering and voting together but never really being a part of the game.

You and others keep saying that, but as I pointed out we've had plenty of people branded with that label who have gone to great things.  Most who haven't have left and voted once or never voted

I've already pointed out how the people you listed who've supposedly been given the label of "zombie" either weren't actually called that by anyone sane or didn't match the definition at all anyway. Do you even read what I say or just hash out an automatic response on a post by post basis?

Let me flesh it out for you. You, or some members of your party, are actively recruiting people from outside of the forum to come, get an Atlas account, and then discretely post until they meet the requirements to register and then they just sit around and vote the RPP party line. These new members don't even know how the game works! Most of them are not going to be active, they'll rarely contribute to the game, and they'll really only serve to pad your party's vote totals without contributing anything. Of the dozen or so people I hyperlinked to earlier, please show me how one of them has made some sort of substantive input to Atlasia. Seriously, you can't, because they all make basic commentary at most just to pad their post count to vote. They've done nothing for this game except show up because you told them to and vote for the people you told them to. And it's so obvious that it's just sickening.

You're an utter hypocrite if you think the JCP is anywhere even in the same ballpark with its so-called "zombie" members. At worst we have active posters who like this game but don't get involved in the specific politics that much. I've asked over and over, what's wrong with this? I've yet to get an answer... it's basically just a silly talking point you've created in some futile game of partisan one-uppance. The RPP drones in contrast literally do nothing except load the game in your favor. Maybe one or two will actually get involved but most of the herd has never done anything but give you votes when you want them to. It's wrong on so many levels and it's also annoying as hell. Your annoying recruitment games give you nothing but an artificial advantage you've given yourself because it seems like you take this game way too seriously.

If you think the JCP has "zombies," seriously, put things into perspective. How would you like it if I went and recruited a dozen or so friends to make Atlas accounts, register here, and then vote for the people and things I tell them to? I could do it, and I honestly thought about it at a point. It would give the JCP an edge, of course. I could even take the Southeast from your party's grasp if I did it right. However, it would be annoying and deleterious to the fun that everyone gets from this game. I don't think you see that at all just because your only concern seems to be winning. If you honestly have such blatant disregard for the spirit of this game, then you really don't even belong in Atlasia in the first place. I don't care how obnoxiously full of yourself you are, your drone army takes the fun out of this game. What's the point in having elections if you've already calculated the votes you need and registered exactly enough off-forum people to make it happen?

I'm sick of the attitude most of your party has about this, and you have no idea how close I am to just quitting. I'm at the point where if it gets any worse I will just throw my hands up in disgust and leave. I know I can't be the only person that feels this way. Just please, man, stop. Recruit all the blue avatars you want, if they're already posters on the forum, but stop it with this zombie sh**t.

[Bacon King]

Other relevant posts from earlier in the conversation. Examples of what exactly I am talking about here.

Each hyperlink is a different "zombie voter." I did miss a couple, by the way.

JCP has plenty of voters who aren't that too active in Atlasia itself, but who post frequently on the forum. I don't see anything wrong with that because at its core this game is an election simulation designed by and for the members of this forum. The RPP, in contrast, has a pretty high number of obviously-recruited members who seem to usually barely meet the activity requirements yet always pop in for big elections. That, while not illegal, is incredibly annoying and nothing short of blatantly gaming the system.

The ballots of the zombie voters. Recognize any of these names? Didn't think so!

Honestly, though, I think "zombie reform" would be great for preventing things like this:

1. RowanBrandon
2. SPC
3. AHDuke (write-in)
4. Marokai Blue
5. Franzl

1. RowanBrandon
2. SPC
3. Write-in: AHDuke
4. Marokai Blue
5. Franzl

1. RowanBrandon
2. SPC
3. Write-in: AHDuke
4. Marokai Blue
5. Franzl

1. RowanBrandon
2. SPC
3. Write-in: AHDuke
4. Fritz
5. Marokai Blue

1. RowanBrandon
2. SPC
3. Write-in: AHDuke
4. Franzl
5. Afleitch
6. Marokai Blue
7. Fritz

1) RowanBrandon
2) SPC
3) Write in: AHDuke
4) Marokai Blue
5) afleitch
6) Franz
7) Write in: Alexander Hamilton

Hey look, six people that joined both the forum and Atlasia at the same time, who each have around the same amount of posts and are all voting exactly the same way. I'm sure they'll be really active posters and I bet they weren't recruited at all!!!

Seriously, this sh**t ruins the fun of the game.

[Bacon King]

I try to be indifferent about the issue, though the RPP's is growing old.

Everyone outside of the RPP found the flurry of spam-to-50 registrations suspicious. Maybe it's just an innocent coincidence, but I don't think it's outrageous for us to be somewhat suspicious.

Just as an example here, two members spammed to fifty post and then registered within two hours of the August 12 deadline to vote in this election; this deadline is something any new member would obviously not know about. There was obviously someone telling them to get posts and register by this day. It is clear as day that there was recruitment from outside of the forum.

[Bacon King]

I am bumping this because more people should read it. I've had several people talk to me through PM relating their own concerns to mine, and I know other people are out there who've seen all this nonsense too.

[Bacon King]

I am bumping this because more people should read it. I've had several people talk to me through PM relating their own concerns to mine, and I know other people are out there who've seen all this nonsense too.

What exactly would you do to solve this problem Mr. Vice-President?

What can be done? The damage has already occured, and there's really no way to legislate against it all. The only thing I can really ask for is that those involved actually make an admission of guilt, and that the rest of Atlasia can see this evidence and know what's really going on.

[Bacon King]

I am bumping this because more people should read it. I've had several people talk to me through PM relating their own concerns to mine, and I know other people are out there who've seen all this nonsense too.

What exactly would you do to solve this problem Mr. Vice-President?

What can be done? The damage has already occured, and there's really no way to legislate against it all. The only thing I can really ask for is that those involved actually make an admission of guilt, and that the rest of Atlasia can see this evidence and know what's really going on.

Zombies wouldn't be able to plead guilty anyways if they only vote.

We have members who aren't very active on this part of the fourm but otherwise very active elsewhere. They still know the other people/candidates.

I'm not talking about the zombies pleading guilty, I'm talking about the people who brought them here.

For example, A-Bob, who invited you to Atlasia? I assume it was also the guy that told you to make the twenty posts the hour before you joined so that you'd be eligible?

[Bacon King]

Swedish Cheese, the JCP "zombie" voters as you call them are people who are active on the forum, care about Atlasia and know how it works, but don't become involved too much. Several members of the RPP are like this, including BrandonH, Torie, and dead0man. They are great posters, active people, but they are only really involved Atlasia these days as an election sim, which is, you know, kinda the reason this game was made in the first place. I don't see how these people can honestly be considered "zombies" by any stretch of the imagination.

The members of the RPP I'm labelling as zombies are the posters who suddenly show up, spam posts to meet the requirements, vote the RPP party line, and never do anything else. This is infinitely worse than posters like Torie who are active on the forum but only come down here to vote. This zombie attack will ruin Atlasia. In past elections, voters like Luis Gonzalez or Cindywho show up, get the requirements, vote once, and never do anything again. A select few stay active enough to show up at the next election to vote the RPP line yet again. How are the blue/yellow avatar two-digit post-count voters who have no idea how Atlasia works yet somehow spam the activity requirements and register mere hours before the deadline NOT a blatant example of behind the scenes electoral manipulation? There is something seriously wrong here, and it goes way above and beyond a partisan issue.  I only single out the RPP because they're the only ones doing such nonsense. Honestly, how does anything else compare?

[Bacon King]

I'll be honest, maybe I've gotten a bit caught up in the crusade element of all of this, but there's definitely something game-breaking going on here. It's unparalleled by anything else that anyone's doing. Look at the following examples to see how obvious it is that there's some sort of external manipulation. I couldn't care less if they don't post in Fantasyland, but can you not tell, MJ, how much this all reeks?

Luis Gonzalez
mid 2008: makes 20 posts, disappears by October
March 29th to March 31st 2009: makes 20 posts, giving him enough posts to register
April 1st: registers in Atlasia, joins RPP, makes five more posts
April 19th: votes for RPP Senate candidates, never posts again.

cindywho2212
June 1st 2009: Creates Atlas account, posts once
June 3rd: posts 24 times in 3 hours, giving her exactly enough posts to register. She then registers in the RPP.
June 18th: makes a single post, casting a ballot for RPP candidates
July 10th: after a month away, shows up to cast a ballot for the RPP. Participates in a few other discussions later in the day then never posts again.
She is later admitted to have been openly recruited from elsewhere on the internet.

Libertas
July 8-10 2009: Creates Atlas account, posts around forty times, registers with the RPP in Atlasia as soon as he has enough posts. Stays active over the next few days.
mid-August: shows back up, posts again, votes RPP party line.

A-Bob
June-July: posts maybe a dozen times
early August: again, posts a few times
August 10th: posts twenty times in two hours, registers for the RPP upon meeting the activity requirements, only a day before the cutoff for voting in the August elections

azmagic
July 30th: joins forum, posts a few times
August 12-13: posts thirty times in a few hours, registering for the RPP in Atlasia as soon as possible (missing the cutoff for voting this weekend by mere minutes).

ajc0918
June 20: creates account, posts once
Late July-August 8: posts 15 times
August 13, early AM: post 34 times in an hour. Registers for the RPP in Atlasia immediately upon meeting the activity requirements. Misses the cutoff for voting this weekend by mere minutes.
Like azmagic above, later attempts to vote RPP party line. Hamilton and DWTL claim their votes should count because the two registered before midnight Pacific time.


But yeah, it's things like the above that practically advertise how something is really amiss. "Zombies" isn't even that good of a word to describe them, but people are definitely being bussed in from elsewhere with the sole intention of providing more votes for the RPP. How else did ajc and azmagic know they needed to spam the activity requirements and register right before the deadline? Who told A-Bob to spam for an hour until he met the requirements? Who reminded Libertas to come back after a month away? Note especially the blatancy of the first two cases, before presumably whoever is behind all this learned to mask it. Luis and cindywho are the literal zombies, posting the bare minimum and going away after doing their job and giving the RPP votes. Presumably they are the most obvious cases because the suspicion generated from it led others to be more careful about it, but it's still obvious. Newbies knowing how many posts they need to register, knowing exactly when to register by, and all casting identical ballots. While there aren't any extremely obvious cases like Cindy and Luis, it's still pretty clear that these voters are being manipulated.

Honestly, what good comes out of this? Fantasyland exists for Atlasia, not the other way around.

[Bacon King]

As Marokai has already stated, guys, only cindywho is the only one who was admittedly recruited off-site. The behavior of other new RPP members (rushing to post enough to meet requirements, registering right at deadlines) make it clear that cindywho wasn't really just an isolated incident. I don't see how we can assume other posters with similar behavior to her somehow weren't brought here the same way.

Duke, I understand what you're saying but I think you seriously misunderstand my intentions. I'm totally cool with the RPP beating the JCP. I mean, everyone would prefer to win, but I definitely know that you just gotta roll with the punches sometimes. I made such a big deal over this because it transcends the JCP/RPP competition and just shows that someone out there cares so much about winning that they'll ruin the game to do it. Seriously, say the current trend continues and Atlasia becomes 10% cindywho's. Wouldn't that just suck for everyone? It wouldn't be about competition anymore, it would just be about whatever faction can recruit a big enough herd to push to the polls. I don't want to see Atlasia become like that, and unfortunately the practices I've pointed out in this thread show that we're already on that path.

Also, Duke, note my descriptions of people on the fourth page; the spamming that occurs isn't blatant or widespread just because the numbers needed are so low. Half of azmagic's last-minute post rush for example was a single conversation with Hamilton.

I'll admit that perhaps I overstated the numbers- some posters that seemed peculiar to me at first later had explainable histories- but I do think that it's obvious something fishy is going on. I've never accused the RPP as a whole, mind you, but I think it's obvious someone behind the scenes is recruiting people for their own benefit. Hell, for all I know Hamilton is really Ogis and he's just getting some of his troll friends in on it too (not an accusation!).

Also Duke I don't really know anyone that respects sewer socialist much, actually. More toleration than anything else. I'm really annoyed by the guy all the time, if that counts for anything. I do understand where you're coming from, though- though I'd prefer if this doesn't devolve into a silly "JCP ZOMBEIS VS. RPP ZOMBIES" thing, because the recruited voters I've mentioned don't really have an equivalence anywhere else. My party's "zombies" are, like I've said, active posters who just don't do the whole "political squabbling" thing in Atlasia. Your party has members like that, like Torie, dead0man, Brandon most of the time. I don't see any problem with those guys. My problem is solely with the people who are on this forum just to give someone extra votes, and if you really look at the evidence I've been posting I think you will notice that some degree of manipulation like that has definitely been occurring.

[Bacon King]

Hamilton, like I said, how are those voters any different than Torie, dead0man, etc.? I think you are projecting a double standard here.