Israel

[ottermax]

If you say that Jews don't deserve the land because they "invaded" it, then how do you explain the Arabs there. They invaded the region too. Why don't we just give the land back to the biblical Canaanites, the first people there? Wait, they don't exist! Israel has fought for that land and it is only half of the land that originally belonged to Jews in the bible. Israel is the only homeland for the Jews. Muslims have many countries for themselves. There are plenty of Christian majority countries as well. Israel does have many problems and they need to be fixed, but the Jews need a country of their own!

[ottermax]

If you say that Jews don't deserve the land because they "invaded" it, then how do you explain the Arabs there. They invaded the region too. Why don't we just give the land back to the biblical Canaanites, the first people there? Wait, they don't exist! Israel has fought for that land and it is only half of the land that originally belonged to Jews in the bible. Israel is the only homeland for the Jews. Muslims have many countries for themselves. There are plenty of Christian majority countries as well. Israel does have many problems and they need to be fixed, but the Jews need a country of their own!

Yeah? After 3000 years, any land claims you have are meaningless. Or else Lebensraum would've made sense.

And I totally dispute that last sentence. Jews are doing very well for themselves in America and other Western countries.

Why don't Jews deserve a country? They were doing well in Germany for awhile, but then they got scapegoated. At least Muslims can leave if everyone starts to hate them, but without Israel, Jews would have nowhere to go.

[ottermax]

Oh, and Happy Yom Hatzmaut!

[ottermax]

If you say that Jews don't deserve the land because they "invaded" it, then how do you explain the Arabs there. They invaded the region too. Why don't we just give the land back to the biblical Canaanites, the first people there? Wait, they don't exist! Israel has fought for that land and it is only half of the land that originally belonged to Jews in the bible. Israel is the only homeland for the Jews. Muslims have many countries for themselves. There are plenty of Christian majority countries as well. Israel does have many problems and they need to be fixed, but the Jews need a country of their own!

Yeah? After 3000 years, any land claims you have are meaningless. Or else Lebensraum would've made sense.

And I totally dispute that last sentence. Jews are doing very well for themselves in America and other Western countries.

Why don't Jews deserve a country? They were doing well in Germany for awhile, but then they got scapegoated. At least Muslims can leave if everyone starts to hate them, but without Israel, Jews would have nowhere to go.

so you think that if the U.S Government suddenly decided it wanted to commit genocide against Jews, they'd be safe in Israel?

Yes. at least safer or at we can die in the holy land...

[ottermax]

I have issues with the creation of Israel, but as a Jew, I'm so proud that it exists.

It is not perfect, that is clear. There needs to be a solution and I believe that Arabs must be integrated into Israel eventually, with a multiparty democracy based not on religion, but on real substance. That may take hundreds of years, but if people start to realize that the fighting is ridiculous, maybe they can learn to live with each other. Idealist, but I think it is possible.

Neither side has been thoughtful or reasonable. Emotions control all negotiations or ideas. Hatred prevails, not reason. The biggest foreboding problem is the disparity between Jews and Arabs. If the gaps widens, the hatred will increase and the violence will never end. Education, investment, and outreach toward Palestinians will help the Jews in the long run. In this world we cannot have theocracies or state religions. The world must learn to coexist and unite past trivial differences.

Finally, no group deserves the land of present day Israel, but the past will only distract from resolutions and a brighter future. Land changes control, but people are harder to change. We cannot find a solution to land disputes until the people of the region change their mindset.

[ottermax]

ottermax, that post is far too reasonable for an interent discussion of Israel. 

And greatly contrasts with his previous posts in this topic.

My last post is my true view of the situation. I'm just very defensive of Israel...

[ottermax]

The only crime of the Palestinians was being nonwhite on soil that whites wanted for their own.

That's true, but realize in context that 6 million of my people were murdered. You cannot place the blame entirely on the Jews. There is responsibility on both sides.