Ohio challenge

[agcatter]

Quit whining fern.  Your candidate got beat.  End of story.  Your crybaby whining on this board day after day is pathetic.

[agcatter]

I wish we could have had a fair election.   Like, say, the election in Washington.  LOL

Yeah, Democrats are only interested in having a fair election process.  Yeah, that's it.

Maybe Dems can get those King County election officials to run the Ohio vote in 2008.  That would insure an accurate count for sure - in the tradition of Mayor Daley and Duval County, Texas.  Dems have ALWAYS just been interested in a fair and accurate counting of every vote.

Bunch of phonies.

[agcatter]

That's it genius.  The Washington Secretary of State "found" all those votes in Democratic King County and turned the election - for the Democratic candidate.

Ohio?  There was a 118 ing thousand vote difference.  All 88 counties are run by bipartisan election boards, each with an equal number of Democratic and Republican members serving on those boards.  Those boards certified the results in each of those counties.  You and Boxer need to share a padded cell together.

Oh, and of course no Democratic wingnut can have a discussion without bringing up Florida.  One last time.  The NY Times, CNN, and the AP all did independent studies of the Florida ballots.  All concluded that Bush got more votes.  Vorlon has pointed this out numerous times in the past.  Maybe you think that the NY Times is part of a right wing election coverup.  Yeah, that's it.  They and CNN are puppets of the Bush Administration.

You seem determined to make sure that facts don't get in the way of a good story.  Except, it's not even a good story anymore.  It's gotten beyond comedy.  

The whining Democrats have become an absolute national joke.  If you don't win it's either because 1) the election was "stolen" or 2) because the voters are "stupid".

And you wingnuts can't understand why the voters don't trust you to run any part of the national government?  

You guys used to be entertaining.  Now, you're just pathetic.

[agcatter]

Fear not.  They will.

Enjoyable to watch their meltdown after every election.  And, they can't figure out why the electorate won't put them back in power.

[agcatter]

Yeah, since when does 129 vote lead equate to a 118,000+ election outcome? 

As far as having respect for Kerry not challenging the election, all I can say is wow.  Now the Dems have us complimenting them for not failing to concede when the race isn't even close.  Boy, have they got us conditioned or what?

[agcatter]

Yeah, but come on.  When you've lost Ohio by (what at the time was) 140,000 votes and Florida by just under 400,000 votes, what the hell else can you do but concede?

[agcatter]

Al Gore set a horrible example, and it's going to haunt our system forever.  He let the genie out of the bottle.

I keep thinking about Nixon's concession in 60 when there were half a dozen states within several thousand votes, and an out and out theft in Illinois.

[agcatter]

Florida wasn't surprising to me.  A Massachusetts lib was never going to win Florida.

Jeb won re-election by 13 pts two years earlier in a year Dems poured everything they had into trying to embarrass W by beating his brother.

[agcatter]

If I hear one more mention of the Ukraine election in a discussion of the Ohio election results I think I'm going to hurl.  Paleeeez.

One last time.

1) Ohio elections are decentralized.  Each county has an election board which consists of an EQUAL number of Democrats and Republicans.  They oversee the counting of ballots and certification of elecion results for that individual county.

2) There was NO problem with the certification of the election results among the Democrat and Republican commission members serving on those boards.  NONE.  Democratic members on those boards did NOT contest any of the county results - not in Cleveland, Columbus, Cincinatti, anywhere.

3).  The votes were counted and there was then a RECOUNT.  To my knowledge, there has NEVER been a recount in ANY state in ANY presidential election with anything like the spread in Ohio.  Not even close.

4) In the recount, Kerry picked up 300 votes statewide.  That is a pretty good indication that the vote count was on the up and up the first time the votes were counted.

Damn, people.  Facts are stubborn things.  What's it gonna take?  Kerry lost the national popular vote by over 3 million votes.  The Ohio vote was well in line with what happened nationally.

Is this the way it's going to be from now on?  Ohio wasn't even close.  Are we going to have to listen to conspiracy crap from now on after EVERY presidential election?  Is that the way it's going to be?  Because, if it is, it is going to undermine the ability to govern of every president elected from hear on - Democrat or Republican.

You really want that?  Discussion of an Ohio conspiracy needs to be taken to the Democratic Underground site.  If Democrats continue to cry wolf over something as clear cut as Ohio, how will you possibly expect ANYONE to take your protests seriously in the future if there is a REAL problem?  Do Dems not see how this wingnut conspiracy stuff is marginalizing themselves in the eyes of the mainstream?

Last time.  No one stole the 2004 presidential election, and everytime that claim is repeated it only hurts the Democratic Party in the future.

[agcatter]

He knows that.  It was a couple of hundred votes.

Hand recount?  In a state where the margin of victory was 118,000 votes?  You gonna pay for it Andrew? 

Why don't you take a long look at the vote in Ohio in 1976.  Gerald Ford lost the state by what, 11,000 votes?  You didn't see Republicans clammering for a "hand recount" in Ohio and Mississippi.  - Two states which, incidently, were actually close, unlike Ohio 04, and which had enough electors to allow Ford to stay in power.  Of course not.  Nor should they have barring hard evidence of fraud.  The losing party accepted the judgement of the electorate and moved on without whining like little crybabies.

However, we shouldn't be surprised by all the crybaby whining from the modern Democratic Party.  After all, what else would you expect from a party that has become nothing but a coalition of victims?

Nor am I terribly concerned that the wingnuts are "suspicious".  You could have a million handcounts and they'd never be satisfied.  You think a "handcount" would have shut these people up?  Please.  BTW, "handcounts" really cleared things up in Washington, didn't they?  Now they really have a mess on their hands.

Guess you'll just have to just be unhappy, because there is absolutely no shred of evidence that any fraud took place.  None.  Zero.  Whether two minor party candidates who garnered less than one percent between them want a "hand recount" makes no difference to rational people.  The key word here is "rational".  Something the Democratic Party has not been in at least the last four years.  At any rate, kindly cool the crap about the Ukraine.  It hurts an already ridiculous case.

[agcatter]

You casually float out terms like "voter intimidation".   Sorry pal.  There wasn't any.  Got any evidence?  Didn't think so.

It's not even a question of hand recounts.  Explain to me on what basis there should be a recount anyway.  While you're at it, how about Wisconsin, Pennsylvania.  Why stop there?  How about Texas, Alabama, South Carolina.  It's only money and your guy didn't win.  Therefore, we MUST keep counting.

Oh, and Washington is not a mess?  It goes a little deeper than "Rossi didn't like the outcome" and you damn well know it.  You must not have been following the story the last 48 hours - a little matter of dead people voting.  Check the Seattle Times.  The fact that you're all bent out of shape about Ohio, but dismiss Washington as simply "Rossi didn't like the outcome" tells me you're just another party hack and just a tad disengenerous about "just wanting to fix the system".  Admit it.  You just didn't like the outcome.  Simple as that.  Outraged about Ohio, but nonchalant about Washington.  Why not be consistant for god's sake if you're really concerned about "fixing the system"?  I think we both know the answer to that one.

I think my point about the comparison of 76 is rather obvious.  Are you trying to say that election should have been contested as well?  Good lord man.

Finally, you bet, Ukraine away.  You're just marginalizing yourself with that kind of dribble.  I suggest you take it to Democratic Underground.com or whatever they call it.  Take Fern with you.  You'll be right at home with the rest of the conspiracy nutcases.

Kerry is history.  You and Barbara Boxer would do well to get over it.

[agcatter]

Our election system is not "a mess".  It's served us well for 200 years.  It suddenly became "a mess" when Democrats weren't dominating elections anymore.  How convenient.

[agcatter]

yawn