If you were living in Austria ... (user search)
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  If you were living in Austria ... (search mode)
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Poll
Question: would you approve of the horse-trade laws below ?
#1
Yes
 
#2
No
 
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Partisan results

Total Voters: 25

Author Topic: If you were living in Austria ...  (Read 1150 times)
Tender Branson
Mark Warner 08
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 58,197
Austria


Political Matrix
E: -6.06, S: -4.84

« on: August 20, 2016, 09:55:10 AM »

A law partially banning facial veils where only the eyes remain visible instead of the full face (favoured by the conservative ÖVP), in exchange for a law that would fully legalize gay marriage in Austria (favoured by the Social Democrats).

Both ÖVP and SPÖ are the governing coalition.

Do you support this (progressive) trade ?

https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=221414.msg5225592#msg5225592
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Tender Branson
Mark Warner 08
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 58,197
Austria


Political Matrix
E: -6.06, S: -4.84

« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2016, 09:56:34 AM »

Yes, because it would be good for women's rights and gay rights.
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Tender Branson
Mark Warner 08
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 58,197
Austria


Political Matrix
E: -6.06, S: -4.84

« Reply #2 on: August 23, 2016, 01:15:30 AM »

Tender...the entire second half of the original article you posted is dedicated to why a ban is an awful idea. If the niqab is a symbol of female oppression (which, on balance, it is - which doesn't mean it can't be worn by some women of their own choosing), will banning it liberate these women? No, their husbands or family will simply ban them from going outside at all, withdraw them from school and isolate them further. There is such a thing as a parallel society in (small parts of) Austria, and something like this is just going to widen the gap further and strengthen the narrative of extremists. That is before we even get into the issues of personal freedom and the state targeting a particular religious group.

Anyway, as someone who actually lives in an area where I regularly (as in most days) see women wearing niqab on the street, how on earth would this even be enforced? Are we going to have police patrolling the streets just for this? Clothing inspectors? (Actually, to the French here, how are things done over with you? Though IIRC the number of Islamic women wearing niqab is far smaller in France.)

And finally, it should be noted that Tender has massively exaggerated the story. Sebastian Kurz, Foreign Minister, ÖVP rising star and noted human turd proposed a burka a few days ago. The only SPÖ politician to respond so far has been the chairman of the parliamentary group, Andreas Schieder, who proposed this trade-off. No indication so far that a) this is the official position of the SPÖ or b) the ÖVP is willing to accept it. If Kurz were too support this deal, he would make himself highly unpopular with the ÖVP old guard - not ideal when you're trying to become leader in a party where they still have a lot of influence.

Oh, there are easily enough measures that could be taken to enforce it: The police already has the power to forcefully remove the facial veil of a woman for IDing purposes. But the woman shouldn't really be the target of these laws, but the patriarchalic, fundamentalist male turds (yes, these are the real turds, not Kurz) behind these women. If they order "their" women to remain home, their welfare should be cut to zero - or they could face prison, for repeat offending and non-compliance. Or deportation, the best option.

If the will to enforce it is there, it can be done. Not wiped away with the usual excuses ...

I also find it funny that there are so many self-styled proponents of women's rights on this forum from the Left, but when it comes to actual laws they are being pussy about it - because they want to shield their beloved Muslims (= their future Leftist voters ...)
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Tender Branson
Mark Warner 08
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 58,197
Austria


Political Matrix
E: -6.06, S: -4.84

« Reply #3 on: August 23, 2016, 10:56:06 AM »

Let's just stop for a moment and consider this suggestion that police forcibly remove clothing from women

Police has every right to forcefully remove a veil from a person's face, if they are unwilling to remove it themselves for an ID check. Police need to know who they are dealing with. That counts for all people, not just Muslims, but also protesters etc.
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