Palestine college student protest megathread (user search)
       |           

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
June 01, 2024, 06:42:07 PM
News: Election Simulator 2.0 Released. Senate/Gubernatorial maps, proportional electoral votes, and more - Read more

  Talk Elections
  General Politics
  U.S. General Discussion (Moderators: The Dowager Mod, Chancellor Tanterterg)
  Palestine college student protest megathread (search mode)
Pages: [1]
Author Topic: Palestine college student protest megathread  (Read 20699 times)
Beet
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 29,018


« on: April 26, 2024, 01:19:46 PM »

One can ask why some young people are so obsessed with Palestine. One can also ask why certain members of this forum are so obsessed with young people who care about Palestine, while lustily cheering on the bunch of politicians running our country who just voted for the genocide of Palestinians.
Logged
Beet
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 29,018


« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2024, 12:12:13 AM »

This whole debate is dishonest because liberals are hiding behind the content of these protests to refuse engaging with a fundamental question about the legitimacy of protests in general.

There is hypocrisy here, given that many of the posters supporting the Anti-Israel stuff called the truckers in Ottawa terrorists, with the defense they intended to intimidate.

The thing is by definition all protests no matter how "peaceful" are intended to intimidate in a democracy. Because if a group had the democratic influence necessary to get its way it would need to resort to them. Protests are an effort by a minority that has failed at democratic persuasion to make itself obnoxious enough to a majority that the majority gives in and surrenders its democratic preferences in order to live a peaceful life.

So protests sometimes may be for good causes because sometimes minorities are right and majorities are wrong. But they are ALWAYS anti-democratic, and any successful protest is by definition a violation of the rights of others, because that is the only way they can succeed.

Pro-Palestine protests are designed to override the rights that students/alumni/donors and others are guaranteed access to and have used to implement their preferences through intimidation, and therefore any protest, peaceful or violent within a legitimate political system is illegitimate. Now whether it should be suppressed by force is a different matter.  

But pretending that the Truckers or Jan 6th were somehow assaults on democracy and this stuff isn't is absurd. There are matters of degree and whether you agree with the cause, but by definition if democracy matters, force is always justified in preference to concessions to minorities that have gone outside the system to enforce their will on a majority.

It was justified against the Truckers. It was justified against protestors at abortion clinics who tried to block women from accessing them. It was justified against anti-vaxxers. And it is justified here. It would be justified if vegans tried to shut down campuses until dining halls banned meat.

This is an interesting viewpoint because if the idea that any protest in a legitimate system is by definition illegitimate becomes widely accepted, especially by the authorities that would decide whether or not to use force, then any protest that actually does materialize under such a system automatically also becomes an attack on the legitimacy of the system itself.

Similarly, if it becomes accepted that any protest is by definition anti-democratic, then anyone who decides to protest over any issue, no matter how minor, is also forced to declare himself an enemy of democracy. If he is labeled an intimidator, then his relations with his fellow citizens immediately deteriorate. If he is considered to infringe on the rights of others, then he must declare his rights and those of others irreconcilable at odds.

Functionally, when the Founders enshrined the freedom of assembly and this so-called (for the sake of argument) right to protest, they were insulating the U.S. from all of this. It is quite ingenious. Despite the thousands of protests we have had over the years, virtually all except for Jan. 6 were targeted at specific issues and not the legitimacy of the government itself. The stakes of any protest are automatically minimized, and there is always an implicit compact between the protesters and the government that the latter will accept the act of protesting itself as legitimate and even an expression of democracy, while the former will make demands only for changes to occur within legal processes sanctioned by the government, even if there is virtually nil chance that they are successful.

Contrast this with authoritarian regimes, where any protest becomes an attack on the ruling ideology as soon as it is declared illegal, and is always tinged with the fear that a color revolution is starting.
Logged
Beet
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 29,018


« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2024, 03:46:29 PM »

There needs to be a way to redefine American patriotism away from the view that "pro-America = pro-hawkish / pro-war in every possible instance". Ironically the America First right has done it first under Trump. Now the left needs its own equivalent. Take care of our own people first and invest domestically over wars abroad. That has always been a left-wing mantra for as long as I can remember.
Logged
Beet
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 29,018


« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2024, 08:45:01 PM »

Logged
Beet
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 29,018


« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2024, 10:30:33 PM »



Not in the way you think

Oh no. It means all the right things to all the right people, including you
Logged
Beet
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 29,018


« Reply #5 on: May 08, 2024, 11:59:52 AM »

'“revoke the F, J, or M visa” of any illegal immigrant' is a strange phrase. If you have a valid F, J, or M visa then you are not an illegal immigrant. You would only be an illegal immigrant if you were somehow staying despite your visa expiring or otherwise not being valid. The Daily Caller article, if interpreted literally, says the law would only apply to these students. We do not know if any such students even exist, but if they do, they are probably very small in number.

I would not be surprised if that is not what this law is about and the Daily Caller is just an unreliable source, however.
Logged
Beet
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 29,018


« Reply #6 on: May 08, 2024, 10:45:36 PM »

Biden's comments today are proof these college kids are rocking and shaking the world. The president of the most powerful empire the world has ever known is shifting. These kids and others have to keep it up until Israel is forced by overwhelming international pressure to come back to the negotiating table.
Logged
Beet
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 29,018


« Reply #7 on: May 11, 2024, 08:11:43 AM »

A lot of the protesters are covering their faces due to the McCarthyist atmosphere in America today. Assuming it's to evoke Hamas is pure bigotry.
Logged
Pages: [1]  
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Terms of Service - DMCA Agent and Policy - Privacy Policy and Cookies

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

Page created in 0.024 seconds with 12 queries.