France General Discussion

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It's funny how he really turns into leftist speeches when it's about all what concerns the crisis, haha, Sarkozy, the best ally of Besancenot. "If nothing changes, people will be right in revolting themselves", he kept repeating this since the beginning.

That's AL's thing since Day 1 of their existence.

Sorry for my ignorance but here I think I need an explanation for what "AL" means?

Don't think that's one of them:

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/AL

Alternative libérale, France's libertarian party.

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Well, the point being that personally I think that we wouldn't have seen that fast growing up of MoDem (about 60,000 adherents within a few weeks, that's something) if it had been something ideological, so I don't put into the fact that the MoDem is the place of the "real centrism" and of some "real centrists". (come on, will you now believe the story telling of Bayrou??! ).

Bayrou's brand of centrism is exactly that. It's non-ideological whining. Bayrou isn't a Christian democratic moderate Europhile centrist anymore.

The MoDem ain't having anything to do with the brand of centrism professed by the MRP or UDF in the good old days.

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I'm sorry, but I don't find an boring whiny idiot an interesting politician. All the guy is good at is complaining about how everybody's wrong and mean.

This guy offers nothing concrete.

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Exactly my point. If the MoDem is made of these peope, they won't be pleased to see the MoDem become PRG version 2, if it does come to that (unlikely, but still).

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Demographically, they could be fighting the same middle-class well-off urbanite base, since the MoDem map in 2009 has little to do with the old UDF map except Aveyron and Lozere maybe.

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40% of MoDemers being centre-right? Not anymore, my friend.

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It will be hard since everybody on the left is an egomaniac who hate each other. Good luck getting everybody from the Stalinist Gremetz to the devout Catholic Bayrou to agree on anything, lefties or not.

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Well, yeah. Left-right is more of an attitude and old thing than an actual clash of ideologies. In some countries, they're about the same though not in France yet. 

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"devout Catholic Bayrou"...
Sorry to disagree, Hash
He says so, but many of his social and value behaviours and ideas are really contrarian to Catholicism.
In fact, it's worse from him than from Mélenchon or Morano...
Bayrou is able to betray DEEPLY what he tries to make the Catholics believe.

I wasn't referring to his ideological standings today, obviously. The guy goes to church every Sunday, he ain't an atheist in practice.

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"devout Catholic Bayrou"...
Sorry to disagree, Hash
He says so, but many of his social and value behaviours and ideas are really contrarian to Catholicism.
In fact, it's worse from him than from Mélenchon or Morano...
Bayrou is able to betray DEEPLY what he tries to make the Catholics believe.

I wasn't referring to his ideological standings today, obviously. The guy goes to church every Sunday, he ain't an atheist in practice.

You're right: sociologically, he's a devout Catholic.
But he's what we call "une grenouille de bénitier"...

In Quebec we say "un mangeux de balustre".

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A few things:

http://cache.20minutes.fr/img/photos/20mn/2009-09/2009-09-15/article_desirssego.jpg

http://www.vistawallpapers.com/img6558.htm

That is all.

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Oh, loaded, what I can say it is that the website is not like on 20minutes' picture.

Obviously. They changed it. They're not that dumb.

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Oh, loaded, what I can say it is that the website is not like on 20minutes' picture.

Obviously. They changed it. They're not that dumb.

Well, not sure they once had a website like on 20minutes' picture, the website I'm on now is just the exact same on i went on some time ago.

Do you have the link to the article of 20 minutes about that?

Denial?

The website with that background was shown briefly on the France2 JT a few days ago. Just search any old news outlet. I'm not making this up.

They changed it to a nicer version once they had seen the massive criticism and jokes it had made.

There is even a 'desirs d'avenir' generator online now.

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I had the bad luck of falling of Ségogo's speech at the Fête de la Fraternité. She took her drugs this morning, that's for sure.

Words cannot express this lady's utter stupidity and cluelessness.

It's live on BFM TV, which can be seen on http://www.election-politique.com/

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Compared to last time, yeah, definitely sober. Probably softer drugs.

She's also more isolated though, nobody of Valls-Peillon-Filipetti attended today, unlike at the Zénith last year. Her new shtick also seems to be against the "Parisian etat-majors" which want to make her shut up.

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André Reichardt (UMP) was elected President of the Alsace Regional Council

Vote Results
André Reichardt (UMP) 26
Jacques Bigot (PS-Greens) 12
Patrick Binder (FN) 5
Bernard Stoessel (DVC, inc) 4

There seems to have been 2 defections from the FN to the UMP-Centre group since 2004, since Binder was predicted 6 votes by pundits (Stoessel was given 3, meaning that a FN vote probably went to Stoessel). The PS-Green group has 8 Socialists and 4 Greens, and there's been no switches since 2004.

Stoessel says he's still in the majority, but doesn't want to be in the executive. Other centrists also support the majority, like the new NC councillor Laurent Spiero. Others, like the MoDem Odile Ulrich-Mallet are favourable to an alliance with the PS-Greens and Ulrich-Mallet denounced the "takeover" of the region by the "UMP machine" (note to that dumbass: Adrien Zeller was a member of the UMP).

And before anybody pesters me about the name of the defector, these elections have always been done by secret ballot. Those elections were also much more fun, if you want, before 2004. You had chaos, backstabbing, walk-outs, yelling, whining, screaming and people with Adolf Hitler pictures on posters protesting the FN.

André Reichardt is predicted to a caretaker of sorts, and he shouldn't pose a problem to the predicted UMP candidate for 2010: Senator Philippe Richert. André Reichardt is Mayor of Souffelweyersheim, a Strasbourg suburb, and President of the UMP Federation in the Bas-Rhin.

P.S.: Jacques Bigot's name makes me laugh every time. 

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What's going on? I don't regularly access the French news.

Clearstream trial with Villepin. Sarkozy said some stupid things insinuating he's guilty before the judgment even fell. It's the big thing on Les Guignols these days (they're the only sane and competent news source in France).

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Open primaries to all voters
YES 67,91 %

Part of me hopes a bunch of right-wingers vote in them to ruin them. Now, that would be hilarious.

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Good luck with that, guys. lol

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Arnaud Montebourg is sad

And it's useless in the realm of cumuls.

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That's lax.

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Aka, appoint non-white candidates in random places over what the people there really want.

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No more secret handshake?

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They should start with having democratic and transparent elections, then we'll see.

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lol

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lol

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Urgh. I want Sarkozy to die.

This article says that Sarkozy is considering switching to FPTP in legislative elections. Urgh.

However, this piece of sh**t would be proud.

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Ipsos popularity for October 2009 (published October 12 2009)

Sarko

Unfavourable 54% (+3)
Favourable 44% (-2)

Fillon

Unfavourable 46% (nc)
Favourable 45% (+1)

Presumably, Sarko's November ratings will plummet.

Top pols

1 Rama Yade 59/21
2 Bertrand Delanoe 57/28
3 Fadela Amara 56/19
4 Bernard Kouchner 56/31
5 Jean-Louis Borloo 54/29
6 DSK 53/28
7 MAM 51/34
8 Jack Lang 50/37
9 Christine Lagarde 48/33
10 Olivier Besancenot 46/44

Other top names: Fred Mitterrand was eleventh at 45/42 before the scandal, Bachelot is 12th (44/43), DCB the annoyance is at 43/34, Juppe 14th with 43/41.

And:

Rachida Dati: 47/42 negative
Martine Aubry: 51/40 negative
Francois Bayrou: 49/39 negative
Segolene Royal: 65/31 negative
Xavier Bertrand: 37/35 positive

Lagarde is the most popular politician with UMP supporters (76%), with MAM (74%), Kouchner (74), Yade (72), Amara (69) trailing. DSK is the most popular leftist with UMP supporters, with 57% favourables (12th, ahead of Freddy, Juppe, Hortefeux etc.). Royal is the least popular with 80% unfavourable

Delanoe is the most popular politician with PS supporters (77%), with Besancenot (68%), Aubry (65%), DCB (64%), and DSK (63%) trailing. Royal has a tie, with 49% favourables and 49% unfavourable. Marine Le Pen is the least popular with 89% unfavourable.

Also, it doesn't seem like they poll Papa Le Pen anymore.

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Quote of the Year:

"L'UMP se porte bien, comme le montre les élections partielles"
-Alain Marleix

lololololol HAHA LOL ROFL LOL HAHA LOL Wow.

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IFOP Barometre for November 2009

Sarko

Disapprove 60% (+5)
Approve 39% (-6)

This is Sarkozy's lowest point in an IFOP tracking poll since May 2007. Of course, other institutes (of lesser reputation, mind you) have had him lower. This massive drop is after the EPAD affair, which seems to have had an important impact on his electorate (as opposed to the general electorate).

And a similar question on whether respondents were satisfied with Sarkozy's first 2.5 years in office gave 37% satisfied and 63% dissatisfied. The same question, asked after one year in office (April 2008) gave 28% satisfied and 72% dissatisfied. 60% say he hasn't fulfilled his campaign promises.

Fillon

Approve 49% (-3)
Disapprove 50% (+3)

Fillon keeps very good approvals (for a Prime Minister, half-a-term in, a 49% approval is something most can only dream about) mostly because he's sidelined and leads a largely behind-the-scene legislative work rather than in the public spotlight like Sarkozy. Les Guignols' impression of him isn't far off from the point. Sometimes I myself go like "oh yeah, what's up with Fillon? He hasn't been on TV for six months"

Also, the poll shows French people Obama.

http://www.ifop.com/media/poll/980-1-study_file.pdf


You know how much I hate CSA and how I think they're a crappy pollster, but they had an 'interesting' poll (worthless of course) on the 2012 election runoffs: http://www.csa-fr.com/dataset/data2009/opi20091105-rapports-de-force-au-second-tour-de-l-election-presidentielle.pdf

DSK 51%
Sarkozy 49%

Sarkozy 51%
Bayrou 49%

Sarkozy 53%
Aubry 47%

Sarkozy 53%
Delanoe 47%

Sarkozy 55%
Royal 45%

Sarkozy 57%
Hollande 43%

http://www.csa-fr.com/dataset/data2009/opi20091105-rapports-de-force-au-second-tour-de-l-election-presidentielle.pdf

Demographic breakdown is interesting, notably how DSK is exceptionally strong with  professionals and well-educated, even stronger than with workers. But still, it's a stupid CSA poll for an election which is 2012.

Also, interesting stuff from IFOP on Protestants here: http://www.ifop.com/media/pressdocument/83-1-document_file.pdf

Though the political analysis is rather crappy and based on their polling. But, yeah, Alsatian Protestants don't vote like Cevennol Protestants.

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Though the political analysis is rather crappy and based on their polling. But, yeah, Alsatian Protestants don't vote like Cevennol Protestants.

Most of all: pardon, but, who cares of the political position of protestants in France, if you know what i mean.

Sorry, but I do. Apologies if you don't approve.

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Listening François Hollande on France5. Socialists are really intellectually totally lost...

Though not the brightest bulb in the PS, François Hollande is miles smarter than his ex. Sarah Segolene Palin-Royal.

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Sarkozy's only chance for re-election is if the Socialists nominate another twit, or if the left is hopelessly divided in a way that prevents reconciliation. In other words, Sarkozy's electoral chances in 2012 are not so dire.

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Sarkozy vs. Strauss-Khan/Delanoe/[insert a sane socialist here] would result in a socialist win, if the situation doesn't improve very significantly in the next two years.

DSK, yes. Delanoe, not so sure. I've always said he was overrated and he reminds me of Michael Ignatieff in a way: people love him before they know him, and they get the cold shower once they learn to know him.

Royal maintains a decent popularity in the PS due to the strength of her sect, but all polls have shown she's disliked by the electorate as a whole. She isn't their best hope, far from it.

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There's little concrete evidence to show that voters want to kill the elephants and replace them with stupid hacks like Hamon, Valls, Royal and her sect.

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There has always been a gap between rhetoric and policy in the PS.

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There has always been a gap between rhetoric and policy in the PS.

Yeah but Mitterand and then Jospin gave a new dimension to it, and really burned the leftist story-telling.

Mitterrand and Jospin have been the only PS 'leaders'. And do note that I only talked about the PS.

Of course, the same comment obviously applies to the SFIO, more so perhaps.

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Of course, the same comment obviously applies to the SFIO, more so perhaps.

Not that I am very well versed in before Mitterand period, but, euh, well, as SFIO leaders that had power Léon Blum comes here, and his acts were coordinated to his speeches, then as a leader  Mendès comes here too, though his passage marked more the international affairs than socio-economic issues.

Guy Mollet. Need I continue?

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Of course, the same comment obviously applies to the SFIO, more so perhaps.

Not that I am very well versed in before Mitterand period, but, euh, well, as SFIO leaders that had power Léon Blum comes here, and his acts were coordinated to his speeches, then as a leader  Mendès comes here too, though his passage marked more the international affairs than socio-economic issues.

Guy Mollet. Need I continue?

I understood it as if they had never been a real leader in SFIO and/or as if there had always been a gap between speech and act in SFIO.

I hope that you're not saying that there wasn't a gap between rhetoric and policy with Guy Mollet