Why is it cool to persecute Christians?

[Magic 8-Ball]

Poor, persecuted supermajority. 

Can someone point to a mainstream movie where Christianity is bashed.  Bill Maher doesn't count, as he doesn't have much of a following.

[Magic 8-Ball]

Poor, persecuted supermajority. 

Can someone point to a mainstream movie where Christianity is bashed.  Bill Maher doesn't count, as he doesn't have much of a following.

Dogma, perhaps?  If that doesn't qualify I have nothing.  An even Dogma isn't so much bashing Christianity as affectionately irreverent towards it.

Kevin Smith is Catholic, if I recall.  I never had the impression that Dogma is meant to be insulting to Christianity, but more a reflection on Smith's opinion of the Vatican's conservatism and alleged infallibility.  It's been a good while since I've seen it, though, and it's possible that time has sifted things from my memory. 

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Oh, it's well known that Carter was the last president to regularly go to church.  Ever since then, presidents have made the excuse that they don't want disrupt people during their time of worship. 

I haven't read either of Obama's books, but doesn't he make mention of converting to Christianity due to its power and influence within the black community?  I'm not religious - and it doesn't matter to me if he is - but that doesn't strike me as a sincere reason to believe in God.

Everybody is trying to find where we went wrong in our schools and why its going down hill.  You have to look no further than 1963 when prayer was taken out of the schools.

What's the correlation between prayer and education?  I honestly don't see how one affects the other in any meaningful way.

[Magic 8-Ball]

Everybody is trying to find where we went wrong in our schools and why its going down hill.  You have to look no further than 1963 when prayer was taken out of the schools.

What's the correlation between prayer and education?  I honestly don't see how one affects the other in any meaningful way.

It goes back to 2 Chronicles 7:14 (I'm going to sound like jmfcst for a moment).  That verse says "If my people, who are called by my name, shall humble themselves and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways, then, will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sins, and will heal their land."  The way this verse relates to education that we should pray to our God and lift up our children that they will have the ability to learn effectively and our educators that they teach as effectively and impartially as they can.  It doesn't mean they teach Christianity, for that belongs in the home and in the church, but that they impart moral values and ethical conduct to their students and that they conduct themselves in a way that is honorable and can not be second-guessed on the intent of such conduct.  We pray to uphold this thing called "integrity".  It is severely lacking in today's public schools, and even a lot of private schools.

Plus, if we pray for our education system and those involved, both learning and teaching, that will in turn affect the corporate and working world that integrity and ethics will reign supreme.  Again, we don't have to teach Christianity, per se, but praying can only help, it can't hurt anything.

So, they pray at home, and kids who don't need religion for that little thing you call "integrity" do just fine without the act.  Problem solved!

Seriously, I try not to demean people based upon religion (or in general), and I accept that we have different world views, but Christianity does not have a stranglehold morality, nor is it the sole gate to education.  I mean, how do you account for Western Europe, whose countries' educational systems aren't dominated by religion?

[Magic 8-Ball]

I mean, how do you account for Western Europe, whose countries' educational systems aren't dominated by religion?

Not exactly the best comparison since many of them have strong roots in religion.

I did a quick perusal of Wikipedia articles on education in various European countries' and I can't find one where Christianity or prayer is stressed.  France's, in particular, stresses that the notion of laïcité, or secularity in society extends into the classroom.  The closest I could find was an example schedule in Italy where an optional religion class was taught on Saturday.  If you could find one where religion is stressed, I would be interested in reading about it. 

I suppose I could have saved time by quoting:

But not in the sense BushOklahoma is talking about.

I believe God is the God of all the world, not just of America or certain parts of America.  He is the same God who is the God of Oklahoma, as California, as France, Cameroon, Australia, Jordan, and even Bangladesh, just to name a few places.  Not all these places recognize that God is in control, but that doesn't deny His existence and His longing to have a relationship with them.  He doesn't need any body, but He desires a relationship with them, but that's a discussion for another thread.  He does desire to guide us in all of our decisions, from our personal life, education, corporate world, retired world, scientific world, and so on.  God does not need anybody, but everybody needs God.  Its that simple.

That's nice.  I still don't see why that proves that public schools need 2 Corinthians to be successful, especially when the countries that top the OECD's education ranking don't bother with it.  If you don't like the Western Europe comparison, fine, let's go with Asia.  Taiwan and South Korea top Math and Reading, respectively.  Do you think their success is due to Christianity?

[Magic 8-Ball]

I mean, how do you account for Western Europe, whose countries' educational systems aren't dominated by religion?

Not exactly the best comparison since many of them have strong roots in religion.

I did a quick perusal of Wikipedia articles on education in various European countries' and I can't find one where Christianity or prayer is stressed.

I never said that Christianity and/or prayer is stressed; I said the great educational institutions in Europe were rooted in religion. We wouldn't have these institutions if it wasn't for religion.

My point is that those institutions have little to nothing to do with religion now, and they are stronger than their American counterpart now.  I think that religion has a negligible effect on one's predisposition to learn.

If you agree (and it sounds like you do), then why respond at all?

Honestly?  Yes, I do.  God is at work despite and even inspite of humans.  Again, God does not need us to tell him what to do and where to do it.  He bestows his blessings on anyone He chooses, and quality education, I believe is one of His blessings.

But that isn't what you typed above.  You wrote that schools went downhill after prayer was removed.  In that light, how do you explain all of these educational systems thrive without it?

It's all over Europe right now.  In sweden you get a month in jail for calling sodomy a sin, even though the bible says it is.  Now has obama come out immediately and passed such a law here?  No not yet, but have you ever heard of a slippery slope.

Logical fallacy?

[Magic 8-Ball]

It's because of fanatically religious people that these institutions became prestigious in the first place.

So, your original comment has little to do with the discussion at hand?  Ok.

"No, I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God."

That is truly offensive. Imagine the outrage if he had said that about women or blacks.

Women are citizens?  Since when?

[Magic 8-Ball]

It's because of fanatically religious people that these institutions became prestigious in the first place.

So, your original comment has little to do with the discussion at hand?  Ok.

Actually, yes, it does. They're not currently dominated by religion but they're grand institutions because religion helped shape what they are today.

How does that support either Bush's belief that American's aren't performing well because religion isn't front and center or my assertion that Europeans are currently doing fine without it?

[Magic 8-Ball]

It's because of fanatically religious people that these institutions became prestigious in the first place.

So, your original comment has little to do with the discussion at hand?  Ok.

Actually, yes, it does. They're not currently dominated by religion but they're grand institutions because religion helped shape what they are today.

How does that support either Bush's belief that American's aren't performing well because religion isn't front and center or my assertion that Europeans are currently doing fine without it?

It doesn't. I'm just saying that your statement about religion not playing a role in the excellence of European educational institutions is a bit off. 

Hence

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And I never said that religion never played a role in education, just that it doesn't now.  It did, after all, preserve the history of ancient Europe during the Dark Ages.

[Magic 8-Ball]

Maybe you're on to something.  Maybe the Jews that run Hollywood have been converted?  Afraid of pissing off the golden goose (ie, ignorant masses)?  Clearly a conspiracy here of some kind.

Lizard People can't convert.  It's almost like you've never heard of David Icke. 

Either way, you don't need to be religious to rake in the money.

The American Center for Law and Justice has documented hundreds of cases of Christians being persecuted right here in the good old USA. Ever heard of the ACLU. the Freedom from religion society, People for the "american" way? They spend almost all their budgets persecuting Christians and christianity.

They also spend much of it on defending Rush Limbaugh's addictions.

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True Christians, it is my understanding, are defined by faith, not politics.  Just because both the Left and the Right use it as a political inkblot doesn't make it right.

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I would recommend staying away from using Pat Robertson to make a point.  He's too polemical for practical purposes.

As to the case cited, anvikshiki makes the same point that I would.

[Magic 8-Ball]

Notice how Coburn didn't answer your questions because he's a fake persona.

Do you have any actual evidence of that, or are you just guessing?  Because I find his persona to be pretty believable.

Why?

[Magic 8-Ball]

Notice how Coburn didn't answer your questions because he's a fake persona.

Do you have any actual evidence of that, or are you just guessing?  Because I find his persona to be pretty believable.

Why?

people are easily fooled.

evidence #3,258, he ignores these comments in order to get Harry to respond some more.

Yeah, that's why I find it hard to believe that people take him seriously.  He is fun to respond to, though.