Israel-Gaza war

[lfromnj]

Energy prices will surge on Monday.

In the meantime, Biden already ran down the USA strategic oil reserve

Although Biden selling off the oil reserve for election time* was bad it is important to note this graph shows from .75 to .5 and it is not bottomed off at 0.

*There might have been a case to sell some off but Democrats refused to refill it when it was almost free in March of 2020 because it would have been a subsidy to the oil industryu.

[lfromnj]

Roger Waters called Hamas "the democratically elected government of Gaza," showed up on Hamas TV and spewed a bunch of antisemitic ravings about Sheldon Adelson being the "puppet master" of the US government, etc.

Still can't believe this guy is part of the reason I became so anti-Nazi...

He's probably not wrong on that.

[lfromnj]

It's fascinating to me how people will talk about whether Israel is a democracy or not and then in the same breath talk about how Hamas is the democratic choice of the people of Gaza. Hamas won an election in 2006, hosted a coup, severed Gaza off from the rest of the Palestinian Authority, rejected the idea of holding another election or reuniting with the West Bank, and has ignored or worked to sidetrack any peace negotiations held by the actual Palestinian government in Ramallah ever since. But sure, Hamas' Gaza is a democracy because they won a vote 17 years ago and have installed a regime of autarky and starvation and made sure no one could vote them out over it ever since.

It's wild to me that so many people in this thread are treating Hamas, rather than Fatah and Mahmoud Abbas, as the legitimate face of the Palestinians. The Palestinians have a leader and they have a government and it wants no part in this stupid war! This is on Hamas.

What makes Abbas the choice of the Palestinians if there hasn't been an election since then? I was treating Hamas as the choice as an educated guess on what the majority of Palestinians support .

[lfromnj]

The Brandenburg Gate in Berlin tonight.

Odd déjà vu... it used to be Blue-Yellow colour scheme back in February of 2022.

Democratic Germany didn't have these embarrassing hangups and, unlike the crypto-Nazi West, knew when to stand against colonialism and apartheid.

You mean the East Germany that was eager and willing to invade Czechoslovakia trying to break free of the shackles of the evil Soviet Empire until the Soviet Empire realized the optics of German troops invading Czechoslovakia? That isn't colonialism though as its actually anti imperalism against the evil westoids.

[lfromnj]

Whats all the sympathy for the "women and children"  Israeli women fight too in the IDF and shouldn't be infantalized. If they are civilians they are civilians just like men can be civilians but don't specifically say women other than mentioning the horrific sexual crimes.

[lfromnj]

If 300 Israelis people are dead (the number is actually higher) that is 3 9/11s.

Are you under the impression the 9/11 flights were mostly empty and crashed into the sides of mountains?

Hes probably doing it as per capita.

[lfromnj]

The Gaza Strip has no future as a political entity.

Its people, regrettably, will need to be evacuated to Egypt and the city of Gaza likely destroyed. If not, the scenes unfolded over the past week will continue for another thousand years.

Israel is not absent of blame of course, indeed they deserve a lot of it, but what has transpired since the partition cannot be changed. We can only look ahead now.

This is genocidal rhetoric. I understand that tempers are running high now, and I truly do understand why, but can we please draw a line somewhere? The median age in Gaza is 18. If you endorse this you are endorsing the forcible expulsion or more likely death of mostly children.

This is not genocidal rhetoric.

The problem with Gaza is that it's too close to Israel.  It's a thorn penetrating up into Israel's territory.  Israel's racist, genocidal, Nazi enemies use it as a salient from which they have repeatedly, repeatedly, repeatedly launched attacks on Israeli civilians to try and conquer the country and wipe its citizens off the earth.

This is simply a strategic liability for Israel.  Gaza at this point isn't a proper city.  It's a military fort administered by terrorists.  It's the equivalent of saying Cuba should expel the Americans from Guantanamo.  Imagine if North Korea had a military base in the San Juan Islands that they used to constantly launch rockets and attacks on Seattle.  Would it be genocidal to say that the North Koreans should be expelled and the base destroyed?

Gaza is a completely failed city.  It's a sprawling morass of cheap concrete and rebar.  It's not like it's Jerusalem or some city that it's critically culturally important for an ethnic group to have access to.  It is not cultural genocide by any stretch to push the Arabs out of Gaza.

Frankly it would be better in the long run since under Israeli administration it could actually be built into a modern, humane, decent city, with the Islamic cultural heritage (a handful of mosques and gravesites) not only kept intact but preserved and made safe and available for pilgrimage and tourism.  Right now those mosques are used as safe hiding spots for Hamas terrorists, they know Israel won't bomb them because the international condemnation for destroying a cultural site would be too great.

Can you explain to me, please, how it is possible that a "military fort" has a population of 2 million and is, as noted above, about 75% women and children?

Gaza is not a military fort that had two million civillians corralled into it by Israel. It’s a civillian city that Hamas turned into a military fort and the largest human shield in the world after they took over in a bloody coup, purged the opposition and instituted a dictatorship. That doesn’t mean any civillian casualties deliberately caused by Israel will be justified; but the people of Gaza wouldn’t be in this situation in the first place if it wasn’t for Hamas.

I agree fully with this, and Hamas is indefensible, as I've said numerous times, but it would not justify expelling so many innocents from their homeland – and, given the realities on the ground, expulsion is frankly optimistic. Egypt is not about to let these 2 million Palestinians into Egypt, and I'd frankly be surprised if they let in 2 thousand. If Gaza is annexed to Israel, its current population will mostly die.

I've seen numerous people assert that "Palestinians in Gaza" support Hamas, so they share culpability for its actions. I have a couple questions regarding this. Firstly, even in 2006, Hamas won less than 45% of the vote – not even a majority. Secondly, as I noted, the Palestinian population is very young – the median Palestinian was three years old when the last Palestinian elections were held. How are we to know whether these Palestinians support Hamas or not? Thirdly, even if a majority of Palestinians support Hamas, one must admit that it is nothing resembling an overwhelming majority. Should the sizeable proportion, if not majority, of Palestinians who oppose Hamas just be condemned to death?

Ultimately Hamas's actions have revealed to all reasonable parties that something must be done. I fully accept that the IDF will have to root out Hamas in Gaza, and I also accept that this will result in civilian casualties. That's the nature of war. What I do not accept is this push for unspeakable crimes to be perpetrated in Gaza by intentionally eliminating its civilian population. I promise you that such crimes would only worsen this horrible conflict.

Hamas got 45% of the vote after a serious gesture of goodwill by the Israeli government . After 15 years there stands little to reason that Hamas isn't more popular now .

[lfromnj]

There will be a refugee crisis because of this war, like there is with EVERY war. I imagine the Biden administration would be very welcoming of refugees (like most Democrats are), but it will probably be more of a mixed bag in Europe. In either case, it is essential that governments do not repeat the mistake they made in WWII of denying refugees entering their countries.

I can assure you that no one in Europe wants even one of these murderous and mentally deranged "Palestinians". The entire Gaza strips needs thirty years of deprogramming to come to its senses.

Polling indicates that about 75% of Palestinians support Israel's right to exist. I am pretty sure only a fraction of the remaining 25% support Hamas' actions a few days ago. Plus, there will also be a lot of Israeli refugees, who clearly do not support Hamas' actions.

I doubt there will be a major national security risk in accepting refugees as there is probably very little overlap between those who wants to flee violence (refugees) and those who want to engage in violence (Hamas).

Why are there no protests against Hamas in the West Bank then and only celebrations?

[lfromnj]

Aurelius: Wants to remove exemption based on religion that Haredim get to not be part of the IDF.
PPPolitics: Why do you want Israel to be a theocracy?

[lfromnj]

Its pretty unlikely Netanyahu let this happen because Mossad certainly would have leaked it to atleast the army. The army and the security forces unlike most nations are actually left of the government. Some key reasons is that the IDF draft  excludes a few groups.

[lfromnj]

Seems like its going to be rainy and cloudy in Gaza on Saturday  thru Monday.. Should be good cover for Hamas to go west without Satellite coverage.

[lfromnj]

https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-hamas-war-china-attack-d572e4169dd7f451cb2b2197506bc74c

BEIJING (AP) — A 50-year-old Israeli man who works at the Israeli Embassy in Beijing was stabbed Friday in front of a supermarket, Chinese police and the Israeli government said.

Beijing police said they had arrested a suspect, a 53-year-old foreign man. They described the victim as a family member of an Israeli diplomat. No motive was given for the attack, and it was unclear if it was connected to the war between Israel and the militant group Hamas.

[lfromnj]

By the way regarding Hezbollah, it seems they feel they aren't prepared for conflict but they are doing light attacks . Is this similar to how Jordan sent a token force in 1973 when they didn't really want to fight in the war? Although in Jordan's case it was also due to a genuine desire for long term peace.

[lfromnj]

Are there any instances of Palestinian missiles causing this kind of damage? I imagine terrorists would have done so already against Israeli target. Perhaps capable but missed? Or is this clearly a bunker buster?

No, there are not, because Israel does not need to hide weapons depots in hospitals. This is very clearly 'something set off an explosion on or under the ground'.

Anyway, more fun media bias news (just from today!) -- compare story to headline:

https://twitter.com/PyriticVictory/status/1714382118770401512

Not sure whats wtf considering Israel actually did a 1 for 1000 trade 10 years ago.

[lfromnj]

Are there any instances of Palestinian missiles causing this kind of damage? I imagine terrorists would have done so already against Israeli target. Perhaps capable but missed? Or is this clearly a bunker buster?

No, there are not, because Israel does not need to hide weapons depots in hospitals. This is very clearly 'something set off an explosion on or under the ground'.

Anyway, more fun media bias news (just from today!) -- compare story to headline:

https://twitter.com/PyriticVictory/status/1714382118770401512

Not sure whats wtf considering Israel actually did a 1 for 1000 trade 10 years ago.

The headline might be cut off depending on your browser, but the headline is 'Hamas says it's willing to release all civilian hostages immediately if Gaza bombing stops'. The article reveals that there are other pretty large demands.

Israel did do a 1 for 1000 trade 10 years ago, but it was deeply unpopular with the public, obviously bad policy, certainly contributed to where we are today by incentivizing Hamas to take hostages, and I would really hope we're not living in a world stupid enough for that mistake to happen twice. "There's an old saying in Tennessee -- I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee..."

https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4135847,00.html
It had 80% support and it makes some sense. IDf soldiers are conscripts after all.

[lfromnj]

The wording of Biden's "other team" comment strikes me as unpleasantly flippant, by the way.

His senility probably made him forget Hamas or who the other team was.

[lfromnj]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/russias-draft-resolution-on-israel-failed-to-mention-hamas-defeated-at-un/ar-AA1ijQVR

Russia actually took a stronger stance against Israel and that is why it abstained on Brazil's proposal.

[lfromnj]

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/foreign-minister-at-wars-end-not-only-will-hamas-be-gone-but-gazas-territory-will-shrink/
Pericles posted the wrong link.

Foreign Minister Eli Cohen tells Army Radio, “At the end of this war, not only will Hamas no longer be in Gaza, but the territory of Gaza will also decrease.”

The line is an indication of the speculation from some analysts that the IDF will try and create a buffer zone inside Gaza to better protect Israel’s southern border towns so that they are no

[lfromnj]

So Hamas claims 50 hostagees are dead from air strikes. We know there were around 200. It is pretty likely Hamas is lying but if 50 hostages are dead already it suggests a certain degree of precision from air strikes which is accurately hitting Hamas terrorists.

[lfromnj]

Reportedly the 2023-24 school year in Gaza has been cancelled because all of the children are dead.

Just let that sink in. All the children. That's hundreds of thousands of children. That's a level of genocide that would make Putin jealous. And we helped Israel do that.

I'm done with this country.

So Israel just killed 1 million people?

[lfromnj]

Can someone actually explain what happens after a so called ceasefire ? What should happen if Hamas continues to attack a month or two later ?

[lfromnj]

I dont think the people of Gaza are capable of overthrowing Hamas but it is interesting that protests are a regular occurrence in Iran despite heavy usage of executions but not in Gaza.

[lfromnj]

Very detailed map shows just how widespread the destruction in Gaza is.

https://twitter.com/MichaelLynk5/status/1752357923534037394?t=DkXwOZqlxkasp4KX8j...

Its just property hope they had insurance or something /s

[lfromnj]

https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/30/middleeast/famine-looms-in-gaza-israel-war-intl/index.html

“We are dying slowly,” reflected El Jamara, the mother in Rafah. “I think it’s even better to die from the bombs, at least we will be martyrs. But now we are dying out of hunger and thirst.”

[lfromnj]

So Biden sent humanitarian aid packages to Gaza. If they were dropped in Hamas controlled territory that would mean a lot of them were probably just stolen by Hamas. I do hope that the packages had American flags on them though.