Rep. Gabrielle Giffords (D-AZ) in critical condition, 6 others killed in Arizona

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http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/36033690#36033690

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Well, in most countries, it is very difficult to have a semi-automatic weapon. In Quebec, it must be kept locked, in an hunting club, you must follow a use course and an psychological evaluation, if I remember well.

The 2nd amendment isn't absolute, there are legal restrictions for certain groups of people, e.g. people with a history of violent crime, mental illness.

The problem is, there's a significant portion of the country that doesn't particularly care for those as legitimate exceptions, or say they do, but are only paying it lip service.

And not to be a total dick. But it's completely legitimate to talk about gun rights and the political environment from all the rhetoric in the last year or two in regard to this incident. I think it's irresponsible to throw around accusations, but would this have happened if the rhetoric on the right was not so incendiary? It's a legitimate question in my mind that shouldn't be shot down by your shaming.

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I agree, gun rights and politics are not completely unassociated with assassination attempts on political figures, although it certainly muddles the discussion on a board like this one!

I suppose that's true. At least very true in this specific thread.

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I think it would be a bit insulting to her to use her shooting as an excuse to ban guns, because she is -- apparently -- a supporter of Second Amendment rights.  Plus, it's just generally absurd to take every isolated situation like this and say "oh noes, we should ban guns."  Far more people's lives are saved every day because they defended themselves, or were defended by someone else, with a gun.  Yet we never hear about those situations.

It'd clearly be absurd to try and ban guns because of this, that would be going too far, but Arizona has particularly lax gun laws. You don't even need a permit to carry a concealed weapon there, and I can't imagine the regulations on who is buying the guns are very tight.

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I think it would be a bit insulting to her to use her shooting as an excuse to ban guns, because she is -- apparently -- a supporter of Second Amendment rights.  Plus, it's just generally absurd to take every isolated situation like this and say "oh noes, we should ban guns."  Far more people's lives are saved every day because they defended themselves, or were defended by someone else, with a gun.  Yet we never hear about those situations.

It'd clearly be absurd to try and ban guns because of this, that would be going too far, but Arizona has particularly lax gun laws. You don't even need a permit to carry a concealed weapon there, and I can't imagine the regulations on who is buying the guns are very tight.

Still, it is absurd to try and restrict guns every time some crazy person gets a gun and shoots people.  We don't make it harder to get a driver's license every time someone runs a red light and runs over ten people.

We do, however, restrict drivers licenses from people who, by driving, would endanger themselves or others. A paranoid schizophrenic, who failed an army psychological exam, given a gun is clearly a threat to himself and others.

Grr...you may have a point there.

Grr? Are you actually debating in good faith or are you trying to maintain a character? You shouldn't react with "grr" to someone who has a good point even in your mind. We're human beings here, not caricatures.

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A person being obviously crazy doesn't excuse the rhetoric that encouraged him. Assassinations and assassination attempts on congresspeople are rare occurrences. I refuse to believe that in a time where the right-wing has been using alot of borderline rhetoric, that this is a coincidence. A person doesn't need to have an "I Palin" t-shirt for the rhetoric going on right now in the political environment to be at fault.

The vast majority of people who try to kill anyone in politics or anyone in general for political are usually crazy. It excuses nothing. I'm not trying to blame specific people as the ones at fault necessarily, I'm blaming the rhetoric as what is at fault, and all those who excuse it.

Gunplay and death threats shouldn't be the new normal in politics and people shouldn't try to excuse it as "free speech." These things have consequences, as exemplified by today.

Most of the rhetoric on the right simply isn't necessary. It's as simple as that. Can't we all agree on that and go from there?

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Please see Wormguy's signature.

At least it's targeted states, not named people.

Ding ding.

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No one is saying he was a teabagger brownshirt. What people are saying is that many on the right-wing (arguably the far right-wing) in this country have created an atmosphere where this kind of political violence is normalized and subtly encouraged, to the point that something like this happening eventually isn't very surprising at all.

Bingo.

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The only thing that bothers me about this thread (other than JJ's trolling) is how many times Brittain and Sewer have had to repeat themselves because some people can't read.

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I'll also repeat that I agree completely with Xahar and I also of course agree with Duke.

What Duke said seems to imply that even talking about undesirable political rhetoric and tamping violent symbolism and rhetoric down in this country is the same as saying "It's Sarah Palin's fault!" which is the only thing that seems to be bothering me about this thread. It's become a controversial point in this thread (look at anything Cinyc has said, for example) to even suggest that the political climate has become too heated or our culture has become too obsessed with violence.

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http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0111/47521.html#ixzz1AsRTkmK9