Israel

[Kaine for Senate '18]

Arabs will outnumber Jews within the next 10 to 20 years, according to demographers.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C05EFDA173AF936A25754C0A9629C8B63&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all

One man.  One vote.  One time.  It just takes one election to kill a democracy.

And I doubt the Arabs will muster more voters than Jews in Israel.

That's their (the Arabs) goal.

It may be their goal, but I just don't see it happening; even if they do, I doubt they could form a Government.

[Kaine for Senate '18]

Rocket hits Israel, second violation of Gaza truce

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[Kaine for Senate '18]

Rocket hits Israel, second violation of Gaza truce

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Israel doesn't have any room to whine about it.

Sure, Israel gets bombed and they have nothing to whine about.

[Kaine for Senate '18]

One of the curious things about this issue is the way it seems to cause otherwise reasonable people (or at least people who normally appear to be capable of being reasonable) to think and say things that they would, probably, find disgusting in just about any other context.

Quite right. Methinks it's because Israel is a quasi-religious subject (and religion does these sorts of things).

Yeah pretty much. Does anybody really think Ben or jmfsct would like Israel at all it were, say, Zoroastrian?

As long as it were an ally of the US, I would support it some, but not nearly as much as I do currently.  I'll admit that me being Jewish goes a long way in determining my support for Israel.

[Kaine for Senate '18]

Rocket hits Israel, second violation of Gaza truce

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If there is one thing we've learned it's that this will never stop until all the Jews are gone.  If every Jew left every settlement in the West Bank would anybody be shocked if two days later rockets started flying out of there?  Would anybody be shocked if the anti-Zionists around here defended the rocket attacks?

No and no.

[Kaine for Senate '18]

Rocket hits Israel, second violation of Gaza truce

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If there is one thing we've learned it's that this will never stop until all the Jews are gone.  If every Jew left every settlement in the West Bank would anybody be shocked if two days later rockets started flying out of there?  Would anybody be shocked if the anti-Zionists around here defended the rocket attacks?

Don't be ridiculous. Would anyone here be surprised if Israel attacked Iran tommorow and all of the Zionists here defended Israel?

That's totally different.

[Kaine for Senate '18]

Rocket hits Israel, second violation of Gaza truce

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If there is one thing we've learned it's that this will never stop until all the Jews are gone.  If every Jew left every settlement in the West Bank would anybody be shocked if two days later rockets started flying out of there?  Would anybody be shocked if the anti-Zionists around here defended the rocket attacks?

Don't be ridiculous. Would anyone here be surprised if Israel attacked Iran tommorow and all of the Zionists here defended Israel?

If Iran gave up land first (or some other card they had in their hand) and then Israel attacked, no, I wouldn't defend them.

Same here.  If Iran did something other than call for Israel to be wiped off the map, I wouldn't be nearly as concerned.

[Kaine for Senate '18]

I don't think anybody has denied that Israel did some funked up things early on.

Even I won't deny it.

[Kaine for Senate '18]

I don't think anybody has denied that Israel did some funked up things early on.

Even I won't deny it.

With 1947-8 it was more about dispelling the myth that the Palestinians rejected the UN Mandate and that that is where the problem comes from which is something that you (benconstine) have said on at least one occasion.

True, I have said that, and I believe it.

[Kaine for Senate '18]

It doesn't work very well; my perception had always been that the Palestinians rejected what the UN offered, and went to war with Israel to regain the lost territory.

Are there any good books I can read on the establishment of Israel?

[Kaine for Senate '18]

What? Is it trolling to note that despite the fact that they committed the holocaust, Germany didn't see any of it's land carved out for a jewish state while the arabs in Palestine lost their homeland to accomodate the fleeing jews? Before pro-Israel supporters call anti-Israeli people nazis or racists they should try to remember that fact.

No, but you've repeatedly made comments about the Arabs losing their land because they're non-white.

[Kaine for Senate '18]

I was saying that germans(who actually killed jews pre-1948) didn't lose any land to them but Arabs(who didn't) lost their land. I was basically making that point and saying that Israel supporters have no call to criticize people for 'racism'.

Your posts say otherwise:

The only crime of the Palestinians was being nonwhite on soil that whites wanted for their own.

Germans are white and Palestinians not so the Palestinians have to suffer for German crimes. Sad isn't it?

[Kaine for Senate '18]

How telling you can be rabidly pro-Israel and not be called a troll but as soon as you're strongly anti-Israel you get labeled as trolling. -_- *facepalm*

I think there's a big difference between what I've said (and I am the most rabidly pro-Israel person here), and what you've said.

[Kaine for Senate '18]

Palestinian goes on rampage in Jerusalem; 3 killed

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[Kaine for Senate '18]

But they wouldn't kill each other, one side would win and one side would lose, they've tried that before with mixed results.  Wait, that is great idea!  But let's actually declare a winner when they fight next time, make the losers leave.  Maybe a new homeland for the loser in Germany?

Deal.

[Kaine for Senate '18]

I think Olmert needs to go, now.  My personal choice to replace him is either Benjamin Netanyahu or Tzipi Livni; I just hope election get called soon.

[Kaine for Senate '18]

I hope Labor can pull something off here but I really doubt anything will happen...

Depends on when the elections are held.  If they're put off for a while, Kadima might escape with only very minimal losses.

[Kaine for Senate '18]

Does anyone else agree with me that Israel is one of the worse places where straight PR could possibly be used? Just the luck of everyone involved that straight PR is used.

Just needs a higher threshold. 5% would at least keep the uber-loonies out.

Yisrael Beiteinu got 9% in 2006.

[Kaine for Senate '18]

Does anyone else agree with me that Israel is one of the worse places where straight PR could possibly be used? Just the luck of everyone involved that straight PR is used.

Just needs a higher threshold. 5% would at least keep the uber-loonies out.

Regardless, it'd be better to use multi-member constituencies.

What makes you think that?

[Kaine for Senate '18]

Does anyone else agree with me that Israel is one of the worse places where straight PR could possibly be used? Just the luck of everyone involved that straight PR is used.

Just needs a higher threshold. 5% would at least keep the uber-loonies out.

Regardless, it'd be better to use multi-member constituencies.

What makes you think that?

Straight PR means extremism. Especially when the parliament is sovereign, as it is in Israel.

How would you set up the constituencies?

[Kaine for Senate '18]

I'd support a higher threshold, but nothing else.

[Kaine for Senate '18]

I'd support a higher threshold, but nothing else.

And how Israel conducts elections is your business because....?

It isn't, but on the last page we were discussing various electoral methods for Israel, and this is what I'd support.

[Kaine for Senate '18]

We're a little over two weeks from the election to replace Olmert; has anyone seen a poll, or something like that, to indicate who's likely to win?

[Kaine for Senate '18]

11 days to go; anyone have any predictions other than Livni to replace Olmert?

[Kaine for Senate '18]

If Obama wins do you think Israel may feel emboldened to unilaterally take on Iran on its own?

No, I doubt it.