California gets gay marriage and very hot weather (user search)
       |           

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
June 10, 2024, 02:11:55 PM
News: Election Simulator 2.0 Released. Senate/Gubernatorial maps, proportional electoral votes, and more - Read more

  Talk Elections
  General Politics
  U.S. General Discussion (Moderators: The Dowager Mod, Chancellor Tanterterg)
  California gets gay marriage and very hot weather (search mode)
Pages: [1]
Author Topic: California gets gay marriage and very hot weather  (Read 10421 times)
Brittain33
brittain33
Moderators
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 22,062


« on: May 16, 2008, 12:24:05 PM »

By the way, the entire issue was about the label. Domestic partners in California have all of the rights and duties that married couples do, both as to the rights and duties. It that sense, it was quite odd. It was all about the deprivation of a word.

I used to feel that way, but there have been such persistent and irritating problems with the implementation of civil unions as equivalent to marriage in New Jersey and Connecticut that they functionally weren't. And given the comparative scarcity of same-sex couples in the total population, the average individual working in his or her job isn't going to have many opportunities to learn that civil unions are the same as marriage without getting it wrong many times, inadvertently or deliberately.
Logged
Brittain33
brittain33
Moderators
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 22,062


« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2008, 12:26:20 PM »

You have to live in MA to get a gay marriage, but I was saying people will go back to their home state taking it to the courts. I believe some state will follow CA and let gay marriages happen.

The law isn't observed in Massachusetts and lots of couples did get married here and took their marriages back to other states. Most places don't recognize them, New York as of this year being a huge and prominent exception.

The reason no one has taken a Massachusetts marriage to Alabama or Indiana and tried to start an anti-DOMA test case is because the gay rights organizations recognize this would be a strategic mistake at this moment in history and only trigger a constitutional amendment if successful. Better to let several states have same-sex marriage for a while before moving forward.
Logged
Brittain33
brittain33
Moderators
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 22,062


« Reply #2 on: May 16, 2008, 04:46:56 PM »
« Edited: May 16, 2008, 04:50:11 PM by brittain33 »

Come to think of it, let us disregard constitutions and laws for a moment. I would be interested to hear a single robust philosophical argument (as opposed to a merely practical one like "there are a lot of same-sex couples, and it would be more efficient to allow them to have visitation rights, etc.") that anyone can make for allowing same-sex marriage that is not also an argument for allowing polygamous marriage.

Sure, but you won't like it, because it relies on fuzzy cultural markers instead of absolutes.

The California Supreme Court recognized a legal space for same-sex couples because there are hundreds of thousands of such couples across the country, setting up households, many of us raising children, and interacting with the institutions of government in a normalizing way.

There are lots of individuals who don't like gays and try not to think about our relationships, but it has become a matter of legal stature not to harass or outlaw same-sex couples setting up households and a question of professionalism to at least defer to our relationships in many forms where it is not a legal question, certainly in California. There are hundreds of thousands of us with mortgages, children, health care arrangements, and other totems of couplehood that are legally recognized and bind us publicly and privately as couples in dedicated, loving relationships. 

You see, this issue is one for dorm-room philosophizing (or better, nursing-home philosophizing) only if same-sex couples are an abstraction or a rarity, like an animal with two heads. For many Americans, we are. Others deal with us on a daily basis, but some of them lack imagination or are just mean when it comes to viewing us as equals. (Ha, won't that statement get a response.) However, in the aggregate, we aren't, which is why decades after gay couples started coming out of the closet and adopting conservative forms of living, we are being recognized.

Not only does my partner have legal rights stemming from our relationship, even pre-marriage, but he has a social identity as my partner that we would never have if we were in an incestuous or polygamous relationship. He comes to social events with me at work. Our families introduce us to others. We go to charity benefits together. I've got a picture up at work. Not all gay relationships can do this, but no incestuous relationship can.

If polygamous families, let alone incestous families, ever achieved the numbers, diversity, and public visibility in their relationships that same-sex couples had, they might be in a place where they could make that argument. Suffice to say, though, just as the Supreme Court could uphold sodomy laws in 1986, they could argue there is no compelling reason to recognize relationships that do not exist in the eyes of the vast majority of Americans and which have no tolerated legal standing or place in our society. As opposed to same-sex couples, who may not be in leadership positions in Southern Baptist Churches or leading national tickets, but who have achieved a degree of visibility and integration that people deny only from a position of ignorance or limited experience.
Logged
Brittain33
brittain33
Moderators
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 22,062


« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2008, 07:22:44 PM »

Why, then, does your argument not allow society to give marriage rights only to heterosexual couples, and create domestic partnerships for homosexual ones?

I suppose it could, but in my understanding, America aspires to not work that way and has done so since the Declaration of Independence. We often fall short of that ideal, but we don't seek to do so with pride.
Logged
Pages: [1]  
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Terms of Service - DMCA Agent and Policy - Privacy Policy and Cookies

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

Page created in 0.029 seconds with 12 queries.