Canada deports Holocaust denier to Germany to be arrested

[Middle-aged Europe]

Actually you can go to jail in Canada and Germany for much, much less-- questioning the government on any policy can result in a life sentence.

ROFL

You´re statements about Germany are hilarious as always, AuH2O. Give us more, please... PLEASE!

[Middle-aged Europe]

Actually you can go to jail in Canada and Germany for much, much less-- questioning the government on any policy can result in a life sentence.

ROFL

You´re statements about Germany are hilarious as always, AuH2O. Give us more, please... PLEASE!

Well, keep in mind, you're in a country where it's illegal for your dog to make like a Nazi salute. So keep laughing... I am. Germany is a joke. 10% unemployment on top of no freedom of speech. Nice.

Well, perhaps you could name a person who was sentenced to life for "questioning the government on any policy"...

Btw, the charges in the aforementioned case were dropped after the prosecutor´s office came to the conclusion that it didn´t break any law. So, it wouldn´t be illegal for my dog to make like a Nazi salute... if I had one.

[Middle-aged Europe]

"Xenophobia" can land you in jail for, basically, ever, because they can usually add up a large number of counts.

In Canada and Germany in particular, authorities use such laws to jail people who criticize immigration policy-- that also happened in Australia, by the way, where they threw an elected politician in jail.

Really Long Link

Yeah, keep telling yourself you live in a free country.

Again, name a person who was sentenced to life for "questioning the government on any policy".

[Middle-aged Europe]

Let me know when Zundel gets out of jail. He has physically hurt how many people? zero. And he'll be in jail for life.

And you know this based on what? Your assumption that Zündel will "be in jail for life" has to be based on a precedence (unless you´re capable of clairvoyance). And this means that it has happened before. So, again, name a person who was sentenced to life for "questioning the government on any policy".

Article 5, section 2 of Germany's "Basic Law" says that free speech can be restricted insofar as it inhibits another individual's "personal respect." Sections 185, 189, and 194 of the Criminal Code prohibit the "defamation" of deceased persons, which in theory means you cannot speak critically about any historical figure, because they are dead (though these are used mainly to defend dead Jews, not dead Germans).

Section 130 of the Criminal Code also prohibits "incitement," which is widely used to prosecute people for their beliefs. Incitement does not require any intent or possibility of violence, as it does in the US (where actually the debate is between an immediate threat and a likely threat of violence)-- all that is required is a breach of "human dignity," which leftist judges can use against people that criticize immigration.

But where exactly is the part that states that people can be sentenced to life for "questioning the government on any policy"?

In addition you could name a person who was jailed because he criticized immigration policy.

[Middle-aged Europe]

I can't read German, but these guys should be able to give you a pretty good summary:

http://www.verfassungsschutz.de/

That's one judicial establishment that persecutes people on the basis of their beliefs.

The problem of course is the government doesn't exactly publicize it's anti-thought activities, so the information available is limited.

I do have the Verfassungschutz´s annual report on my computer, but thanks. By the way, I´m still waiting for an example that people who are "questioning the government on any policy" are sentenced to life here...


Concerning your claim that people critizising immigration policy are jailed, I have some quotes from Edmund Stoiber for you (I can´t really believe that I´m citing him to prove my point):

"The racially blended and mixed society is a threat to Germany" - Edmund Stoiber, 1988

"Germany is not an immigration country and therefore it doesn´t need any immigration laws." - Edmund Stoiber, 1992

"You are closing theaters, we are building museums and deporting (immigrants)." - Edmund Stoiber, 1996

"We want the christian-occidental culture to remain the guiding culture and not that it is absorped into a mishmash." - Edmund Stoiber, 2000

I did my best with the translations. Stoiber literally created some of the terms he used in those quotes (for example "durchrasst", which I translated as "racially blended"), so there are no real equivalents in English. Anyway, Edmund Stoiber was never arrested, never charged and never jailed for anything... he´s "minister-president" of Bavaria since 1993, chairman of the CSU since 1999 and was the CDU/CSU candidate for the office of Chancellor in 2002 (he lost, but only as narrow as John Kerry did in 2004). And keep in mind that those are only the quotes of a one single politician.

Are you sure that you don´t want to retract your claim that people critcizing immigration are jailed in Germany?

[Middle-aged Europe]

You're taking small, isolated events that are, while reprehensible, not in any way representative of the grand scale of things, and then trying to extrapolate these events to the country at large.  It just doesn't work.

Amen.

[Middle-aged Europe]

Question for you, Old Europe - do you support your government's actions in this case?

You mean concerning the Zündel case? Well, would it be gutless to say that I´m rather undecided? Getting him into jail isn´t exactly my top priority. Freeing him neither.

The German laws regarding Nazis are a understandable product of the experiences with the Third Reich. Had the United States started a world war and initiated a major genocide there would probably exist similar laws in the US today. During the Weimar Republic the Nazis had the right to say what they wanted say... in the end they became the largest party in parliament and managed to take over the government. The rest is history.

On the other hand such laws shouldn´t be carried to excess. And it´s debatable wether these regulations have a use at all, considering that the Nazis won´t simply disappear. Instead they go into the underground and do there what they would do anyway. In addition, you have to keep in mind that you could create martyrs by prosecuting Nazis. And last but not least there´s the "freedom of speech" argument.

So, I have really no idea... but AuH2O statements are the usual mix of exaggarations, misconceptions and possibly lies. As the quotes of Edmund Stoiber show, a leading politican is able to complain about too much "racial blending" caused by immigration without getting thrown into jail (or being forced to resign)... of course, Stoiber´s remarks often caused quite a stir.

[Middle-aged Europe]

Stoiber, btw, has changed his tune recently... in fact, the whole song and dance.

Yes, after Stoiber´s campaign manager came to the conclusion that his rethoric could possibly hurt him north of the "Weißwurstäquator". He became suddenly a moderate after his candidacy for chancellor was announced. But as far as I know that´s something what politicians in the rest of the world do too. So what?

Actually, the US committed genocide against the Native Americans. Humorously, they are STILL in camps ("reservations"). If you've been to one... it's not too pretty. Some do OK because of the loophole in the law that let them open casinos though.

The difference is probably that those crimes were commited under a "regime" which is still in existence. I mean, the United States certainly won´t ban its own flag. In the case of Germany all aforementioned crimes were commited under one and the same regime which lasted only 12 years. So, it´s very easy to isolate, especially because the Nazis did everything to distinguish themself from previous governments.

In addition, the U.S. government (even during the Indian wars) never had a totalitarian structure, so both cases aren´t probably even roughly comparable. And I don´t how many people live in the US today, who think that killing the Native Americans was a good idea, that it should repeated as soon as possible (this time only more thorough) and who contest in elections with their political party (sometimes successful).

And Canada certainly wasn't run by Nazis. Their excuse for thought policing is?

Uh, I guess I´m the wrong guy to answer that.

Germany in WW2 did nothing different than many countries have done. It's the identity of their victims that brought down everything on their heads. Anyone that doesn't see that is blind, and guess what, in a honest moment any Jewish person will agree.

Can´t remember a Jew who told me this... probably means that all Jews I know are "dishonest", aren´t they?

[Middle-aged Europe]

How many have you asked? How many are your relatives?

Oh, yeah I guess I will start a survey...

Further, the crimes Germany will charge him with are the same-- "inciting" "hate" by questioning certain specifics of concentration camp design and size.

"The Jews of the world have a Holocaust coming. I just hope I live to see it." - Ernst Zündel

As I already said to John Dibble I´m rather undecided about the whole deportation thing, but this quote doesn´t sound exactly as if the only thing Zündel ever did was to question "certain specifics of concentration camp design and size." Wether you agree with Germany´s laws or not, you shouldn´t try to make look him better as he actually is.

[Middle-aged Europe]

Making up fake quotes isn't a great way to show you should be jailing someone.

That´s of course a rather... eh, interesting statement for someone who is known for always telling the whole truth and nothing but the truth, like your claim that "questioning the government on any policy can result in a life sentence" in Germany and Canada for which I´m still waiting to see a single proof...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernst_Z%FCndel#Quotes