Puerto Rico status referendum - June 11

[NOVA Green]

I'm surprised that nobody on the thread has mentioned the giant tax loophole whereby US MNCs have set up shop in Puerto Rico to evade corporate income taxes....

Essentially in the '70s/'80s/'90s there were a ton of MNCs including household names in the Technology Sector, pharmaceutical sector, and many others that fled to a low wage (US minimum wage does not apply in Puerto Rico), looser regulations when it comes to environmental regulations, as well as a means of taxing advantage of tax loopholes to essentially avoid paying *any Federal taxes* for assets located in Puerto Rico.

Lest anyone jumps to conclusions about where I am coming from on my post, in no way shape or form is it saying that US companies should not invest in manufacturing operations and jobs in Puerto Rico.

What I do have an issue with, is US based companies gaming the system in order to avoid paying prevailing Federal Minimum Wage, avoid paying any taxes for their operations in Puerto Rico to either the Federal Government, nor to the Great Commonwealth of Puerto Rico.

Anyone who wants to whine and complain about how Puerto Rico doesn't deserve their own choice and right to be the 51st State of the Union, because of "Fiscal mismanagement" appears to neglect the "offshore" revenue slipping out of the Island to benefit Fortune 100 Companies that would otherwise go into supporting the local economy and social services.

Personally, I believe that Puerto Ricans have a choice, and I will support both the votes for Independence and the votes for Statehood. This is not my choice to make.

What is clear, is that the status quo has failed our fellow citizens in Puerto Rico, and the policies of various Administrations over the decades, regardless of a (D) or (R) behind their names have essentially been shills that kept teasing Puerto Rico, in order to enable their corporate and manufacturing paymasters, while jobs were being shifted from Union cities and States, to line to greedy pockets of US Corporations, Wall Street, and International investors....

Bottom Line: If Puerto Rico decides to become the 51st State of Union, the fiscal situation will improve dramatically..... MNCs like Hewlett-Packard and Big Pharma will have to pay their fair share.

Sure.... was their local economic mismanagement that happened in Puerto Rico a partial contributor---- Yes.   Were the citizens of Puerto Rico basically screwed over as a result of greedy MNCs playing the same games of "divide and conquer" as always---- absolutely 100% . Puerto Rico has been literally deprived of Billions of dollars in Revenue over the past 5 decades, that has gone to line to pockets of the "Fat Cats", and done very little to help our Island friend to the South

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pharmaceutical_industry_in_Puerto_Rico

https://techcrunch.com/2017/01/15/puerto-rico-turns-to-tech-and-entrepreneurialism-to-revitalize-the-economy/

[NOVA Green]

I'm surprised that nobody on the thread has mentioned the giant tax loophole whereby US MNCs have set up shop in Puerto Rico to evade corporate income taxes....

Essentially in the '70s/'80s/'90s there were a ton of MNCs including household names in the Technology Sector, pharmaceutical sector, and many others that fled to a low wage (US minimum wage does not apply in Puerto Rico), looser regulations when it comes to environmental regulations, as well as a means of taxing advantage of tax loopholes to essentially avoid paying *any Federal taxes* for assets located in Puerto Rico.

Lest anyone jumps to conclusions about where I am coming from on my post, in no way shape or form is it saying that US companies should not invest in manufacturing operations and jobs in Puerto Rico.

What I do have an issue with, is US based companies gaming the system in order to avoid paying prevailing Federal Minimum Wage, avoid paying any taxes for their operations in Puerto Rico to either the Federal Government, nor to the Great Commonwealth of Puerto Rico.

Anyone who wants to whine and complain about how Puerto Rico doesn't deserve their own choice and right to be the 51st State of the Union, because of "Fiscal mismanagement" appears to neglect the "offshore" revenue slipping out of the Island to benefit Fortune 100 Companies that would otherwise go into supporting the local economy and social services.

Personally, I believe that Puerto Ricans have a choice, and I will support both the votes for Independence and the votes for Statehood. This is not my choice to make.

What is clear, is that the status quo has failed our fellow citizens in Puerto Rico, and the policies of various Administrations over the decades, regardless of a (D) or (R) behind their names have essentially been shills that kept teasing Puerto Rico, in order to enable their corporate and manufacturing paymasters, while jobs were being shifted from Union cities and States, to line to greedy pockets of US Corporations, Wall Street, and International investors....

Bottom Line: If Puerto Rico decides to become the 51st State of Union, the fiscal situation will improve dramatically..... MNCs like Hewlett-Packard and Big Pharma will have to pay their fair share.

Sure.... was their local economic mismanagement that happened in Puerto Rico a partial contributor---- Yes.   Were the citizens of Puerto Rico basically screwed over as a result of greedy MNCs playing the same games of "divide and conquer" as always---- absolutely 100% . Puerto Rico has been literally deprived of Billions of dollars in Revenue over the past 5 decades, that has gone to line to pockets of the "Fat Cats", and done very little to help our Island friend to the South

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pharmaceutical_industry_in_Puerto_Rico

https://techcrunch.com/2017/01/15/puerto-rico-turns-to-tech-and-entrepreneurialism-to-revitalize-the-economy/

So much in this post is wrong.
1. Companies USED to receive tax breaks for being in Puerto Rico, those tax breaks have been slowly wound down since the mid 1990s and ended in 2006.
2. Puerto Rico is subject to a minimum wage. Any company that is FLSA eligible pays federal rate, any that isn't may not pay less tha 70% of the fed min.
3. These corporations still had to pay Puerto Rico taxes.

In your rush to blame large evil corporations, you missed too many facts.

Again the reason is fiscal mismanagement. The worst thing the US government did was in 1914 they made all bonds issued by Puerto Rico 100% tax free (fed, state, municipal) which is not uncommon for municipal bonds, but they made them tax free regardless of if you lived on US soil. This has made Puerto Rican bonds incredibly prized on the bond market. The PR government saw some economic downturn and rather than work on problems (Crime, Corruption, inability to collect taxes, bloated government salaries) they borrowed, then they borrowed more to pay off that debt, and the market for PR bonds, because of the tax breaks, made them desirable despite the cash flow issues PR has.

Thanks for the correction Rjjr77...

I stand humbly corrected, and am apparently still stuck back in a timewarp from several decades ago.

That being said--- it still appears that Puerto Rico has been robbed of a significant amount of revenue from preceding decades, regardless of economic mismanagement from various political parties/leaders on the Island.

[NOVA Green]

Thanks for the update Arch!

Are there any early indications from the tea leaves of Civil Society in terms of how non-political organizations are positioning themselves on statehood vs independence?

(Labor Unions, Student Organizations, faith-based organizations, small business associations, etc....)

Just curious what the respective coalitions look like and how they are positioning themselves on this issue, which will likely be the most important electoral decision in the history of the Island, from a long-term perspective.

[NOVA Green]

So.... the winds of change are dramatically shifting within Puerto Rico, and much of this thread has been devoted from the perspective of "The Colonizer", basically with only a very limited Puerto Rican voice (Arch---- I love you mate!!!)....

While we have Democratic/Republican/Libertarian/"Indepenent" avatars alike sitting here as keyboard warriors discussing items such as what it will mean for US Senate/House seats, the "cost-benefit analysis" of Puerto Rican Statehood and "bailouts", we have a huge issue that has been occurring for well over a decade on an involuntary internal migration of US Citizens, perhaps the largest over the past 20 years, leaving to the Mainland, simply because political leaders of both the Republican and Democratic Party haven't appeared to give a s**t, to address a real issue in what would actually be one of the larger states in the Union in terms of population.

Although many might say, "the choice has always been up to the Citizens of the Comnonwealth", "they had a choice to vote many times", the ugly reality is that ever since 1898 "Remember the Maine", there has been a dramatic imbalance of power with Puerto Rico, which was essentially the first "Colony" in American History....

This relationship has been fine and dandy for decades, from the perspective of the Mainlanders....

Why did so many Puerto Ricans move to cities like New York, Philadelphia, Hartford, West Chicago, and so many other cities throughout the Eastern Seaboard and even into the Midwest back in the '50s/'60s?

Why did MNCs (Tech & Big Pharma) set up show in Puerto Rico in the early '90s?

Anyone that want to claim that the relationship between Puerto Rico and the US Government has ever been anything approaching an equal relationship, is apparently smoking some hardcore White Powder...

So now that the successors to the Spanish colonists have had their centurary long whirl with the Island, is it any wonder that the Independence Movement is stronger than it has ever been?

Not my choice, not my vote, the people of Puerto Rico will decide their own destiny....

However, regardless of the choice, it reminded me of this classic song from a classic Puerto Rican band from the South Bronx back in the '60s....

"Viva Puerto Rico Libre"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0SaAJzm4oo

Meanwhile, this mural is still floating around in the Humboldt Park area of West Chicago, where I spent some time visiting friends from college in the early '90s.

[NOVA Green]

So.... the winds of change are dramatically shifting within Puerto Rico, and much of this thread has been devoted from the perspective of "The Colonizer", basically with only a very limited Puerto Rican voice (Arch---- I love you mate!!!)....

While we have Democratic/Republican/Libertarian/"Indepenent" avatars alike sitting here as keyboard warriors discussing items such as what it will mean for US Senate/House seats, the "cost-benefit analysis" of Puerto Rican Statehood and "bailouts", we have a huge issue that has been occurring for well over a decade on an involuntary internal migration of US Citizens, perhaps the largest over the past 20 years, leaving to the Mainland, simply because political leaders of both the Republican and Democratic Party haven't appeared to give a s**t, to address a real issue in what would actually be one of the larger states in the Union in terms of population.

Although many might say, "the choice has always been up to the Citizens of the Comnonwealth", "they had a choice to vote many times", the ugly reality is that ever since 1898 "Remember the Maine", there has been a dramatic imbalance of power with Puerto Rico, which was essentially the first "Colony" in American History....

This relationship has been fine and dandy for decades, from the perspective of the Mainlanders....

Why did so many Puerto Ricans move to cities like New York, Philadelphia, Hartford, West Chicago, and so many other cities throughout the Eastern Seaboard and even into the Midwest back in the '50s/'60s?

Why did MNCs (Tech & Big Pharma) set up show in Puerto Rico in the early '90s?

Anyone that want to claim that the relationship between Puerto Rico and the US Government has ever been anything approaching an equal relationship, is apparently smoking some hardcore White Powder...

So now that the successors to the Spanish colonists have had their centurary long whirl with the Island, is it any wonder that the Independence Movement is stronger than it has ever been?

Not my choice, not my vote, the people of Puerto Rico will decide their own destiny....

Yes, most of that migration is pseudo-involuntary, particularly for the younger and more educated population who have extremely limited opportunities due to a stagnating economy and lack of appropriate job opportunities. Puerto Rico has one of the best public higher education systems, but its graduates cannot stay and work with the skills they acquire.

I would like to point out that the failing economy has created a feedback loop among the older generation as well. They were employed throughout their entire lives in Puerto Rico, but now they have great benefits in the form of SS + savings + retirement plans. However, they refuse to stay and move to FL or GA or TX, taking all of their savings out of the local economy, which creates further stagnation. It's quite a problem when you have one of the generations with the most potential (younger) and one of the generations with the most capital (oldest) both flee.

Yes, Puerto Ricans, even as American citizens, can only voice what they want and are not free to choose their political status, their imports/exports, and (now) their financial management either. The current status has to end because, unlike the states who have a symbiotic relationship with the U.S. government, Puerto Rico has a parasitic one. Many would say that PR is the parasite, but that is simply not the case. Yes, the island gets several billion in federal cash, but cannot make up for the lost sovereignty, fiscal control, or escaping capital.

Puerto Ricans moved to those cities in the 50's because of the development of the island. In those times, Puerto Rico was incredibly underdeveloped (think near Haiti levels). With the change in the political relationship with the United States, Puerto Rico was able to industrialize incredibly quickly and develop a strong infrastructure. However, it hit a wall when that relationship reached its limit, and it hasn't been able to move forward any further because of it. A good number of them came back after the island developed.

Tech & Big Pharma set up in the island because it was a tax-free haven. For a while, the government allowed these companies to operate without paying a dime of taxes. It was all part of the strategy to "stimulate" the economy back then. However, they're now practicing corporate welfare, and Puerto Rico has not been able to reap the taxes it was hoping to after that agreement ended.

While I still think Independence is a long shot, a distancing is completely on the table. Statehood can still carry on though. A lot of Puerto Rican culture has Americanized, and mostly everyone has gotten used to it. Still, the mistreatment can change everyone's minds in a moment's notice (PRexit).

I spent almost an hour drafting a long and detailed post.... but I'll leave it simply at your bolded comments and a few brief words (Which I'm not very good at...   )

Now that I have ended a 20 year career working for multiple suppliers for Hewlett-Packard I feel that I can speak freely without fear of retribution or retaliation.

HP made a deliberate business decision to relocate final assembly operations in their Inkjet Business Unit (IJBU), in order to deliberately exploit corporate tax loop-holes, the lack of a Federal Minimum Wage on the Island (At that time), while they relocated manufacturing jobs from the mainland to the Island, in order to centralize all of their Americas production/manufacturing operations to feed the pockets of the stockholders on Wall Street.

I was there at their largest Inkjet Mfg facility, and met the Engineers and Techs from Puerto Rico who came over and spent a year learning how to tear down the lines and rebuild the lines at new facilities elsewhere....

Later on, just a few years back, one of my son-in-laws Father, who worked as a direct HP employee, lost his job to a Corp BU spinoff and shifted to the new company Polycom.

When he was an HP employee, he spent a year in Aguadilla, Puerto Rico, although my son-in-law has somewhat hazy memories of that time....

When HP spun off Polycom, he was sent down to Puerto Rico to train his replacements, and then he was laid off about a year ago.

The same big Tech and Pharma firms that invested heavily in Puerto Rico, are not shifting on, shirking all responsibilities and treating the Island like a two dollar Hoe, to move on to the next most profitable locations to maximize their dollars upon the altars of Wall Street and NASDAQ....

I have lost virtually all trust in these companies, that move around from state to state, region to region, country to country, looking for where ever they can find the biggest Corporate Welfare payoffs of all.

Meanwhile, according to some of the Neo-Liberal schills on the Forum, it is somehow all Puerto Rico's fault.....

Disgraceful.

[NOVA Green]

HUGE Update: The Joint Finance Committee has forced through the following extreme austerity measures in Puerto Rico, effective with the start of the next fiscal year, per http://elvocero.com/en-vivo-junta-aprueba-unanimemente-plan-fiscal-del-gobierno-con-enmiendas/ and https://www.facebook.com/prinforma/photos/a.604147566303311.1073741828.602827359768665/1478748635509862/?type=3&theater.

The following is a rough list of negative austerity measures that will directly hinder the already struggling average resident/worker in PR:

($450M cut of the University of PR's budget) Recorte de $450+ millones a la UPR
(11% tax will now apply to online purchases) IVU a compras por internet
(Increase in property taxes) Aumento al impuesto a la propiedad
(Increase in car registration fees) Aumento de Marbetes
(Increase in car insurance fees) Aumento a seguro ACAA
(Increase in compulsory insurance) Aumento al Seguro compulsorio
(Increase in transit fines) Aumento a Multas de Tránsito
(Increase in license plate registration fees) Aumento a Tablillas de Vehículos
(Increase in court tariffs) Aumento a Aranceles Tribunales
(Increase in construction permits) Aumento a Sellos Hacienda
(Increase in construction permit evaluations) Aumento a Comprobantes Hacienda
(Increase in government-issued permit fees) Aumento a Permisos
(Increase in exempt income taxes) Aumento impuesto ingresos exentos
(New taxes on shared earnings) Impuestos a Distribución Ganancias
(Increase in local train system fees) Aumento AMA
(Increase in public transportation system fees) Aumento ATI
(Increase on tolls) Aumento de Peajes
(Increase in royalties) Aumento a Regalías (Royalties)
(Increase in service fees) Aumento a cargos por Servicio
(Increase in expressway "fast" tolls) Aumento Peajes carriles expreso
(Increase in sanitation permit fees) Aumento a Permisos de Salud
(Increase in firefighter safety permit fees) Aumento a Permisos de Bomberos
(Increase in permit fees from the National Resource Dept.) Aumento a Permisos de Recursos Naturales

Hereby, "incentives" = "tax incentives"

(Removal of incentives for touristic development) Eliminación de créditos por desarrollos turísticos
(Removal of incentives for capital investment) Eliminación de créditos a Fondos de Inversión de Capital
(Removal of incentives for home development) Eliminación de créditos por Inversión en Vivienda
(Removal of incentives from PR's Conservation Law) Eliminación de créditos por Ley de Conservación de Puerto Rico
(Removal of incentives for urban development) Eliminación de créditos por Revitalización de los Centros Urbanos
(Removal of incentives from the Economic Development Law) Eliminación de créditos por Ley de Incentivos Económicos parar el Desarrollo
(Removal of incentives from the Touristic Development Law) Eliminación de créditos por Ley de Desarrollo Turístico
(Removal of incentives for the local film industry) Eliminación de créditos para la Industria Fílmica en Puerto Rico
(Removal of incentives for investments into sanitation services) Eliminación de créditos para la Inversión en Facilidades de Desperdicios Sólidos
(Removal of incentives for donations to foundations from ex-governors) Eliminación de créditos por donativos a fundaciones de exgobernadores
(Removal of incentives for the construction of homes for the elderly) Eliminación de créditos para la construcción de vivienda para envejecientes
(Removal of incentives in [all those sections]) Eliminación de créditos en Secciones 1051.09, 1051.07, 1052.03 y 4050.10 del Código de Rentas Internas

(Removal of 53 tax relief measures/exemptions) 53 exenciones eliminadas en las Planilla

Tons of locals talking about leaving. The new popular name for the committee is the "Joint Dictatorial Committee" since all of their decisions are final, not subject to deliberation, and cannot be challenged.

All of this power was granted to the Committee by Congress. You can imagine how things are flaring up. This does not bode well for the people in Puerto Rico, let alone statehood.

It is clear that this Committee (members of which were appointed and not elected and given absolute powers) does not care about Puerto Ricans. They want to squeeze out every dollar possible. Expect strikes and both violent and peaceful protests.

What does this mean for the US if nothing changes and people go through with what they're saying? Well, for starters, FL, GA, and TX will be flooded by more Puerto Ricans. The already less swingy Hillsborough county in FL will become a Miami-like stronghold with Pinellas following right behind it.

In other words, Republicans and their sh**tty committee are shooting themselves in the leg in the long run if they fail to address this catastrophe.

This is totally effed up.... Neo-Liberal "shock therapy" measures being weaponized against US Citizens, in a manner that has been deployed in many Foreign Countries from Latin America, to Europe, and Asia....

Unfortunately, I doubt this will get tons of airtime in the US National Media, especially with the current weekly bouts of the latest Trump related scandals and various items (hopefully it does).... I think there is a bit of chance that it might go mainstream, because of the larger than average concentration of Puerto Ricans in some of the biggest states and media markets (New York, Philly, Florida, Illinois, and Texas).

Neo-Liberal austerity measures dictated from above as part of a "shock therapy" agenda are nothing more than a smokescreen to ram through unpopular decisions that dramatically decrease the short, medium, and longer term standard of living for those impacted.

Similar measures were shoved down the throat of Poland in the early 1990s, Greece just a few years back, not to mention so many other times we have seen that happen in Latin America.

Ultimately, what has occurred is a destabilization and massive social and political unrest, combined with mass external migration of those simply trying to make a living that have few choices but to leave the austerity regime behind.

This issue is much more important than partisan politics, although I will shoot an email tonight to my US Senators and Reps to let them know how I feel (Although unfortunately both are extremely Liberal Democrats)....

Meanwhile down in subvert city.... Puerto Rico might well start looking like parts of the UK in the '80s and Greece over the past few years.... (Warning many include scenes of massive protests and riots to the tune of a classic UK Peace Punk band from the mid 1980s, additionally there might be a few profanities included in the vocal lyrics of the band as well for those potentially offended or have small children that might repeat every "bad word" they hear in school or elsewhere).....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nM8Xb9dAol0

Although the goals of the Puerto Rican Independence Movement and the FALN were soundly rejected after the tumultuous era of the late '60s and '70s, one might wonder if this might be the final straw that breaks the chains that bind.... What will the MNCs, Foreign investors, and general greedy profiteers do, if PR decides to become their own sovereign nation, and they suddenly lose all sorts of massive US tax benefits that they have enjoyed for decades, as part of a means to create a corporate foothold into the Latin American market, while never paying their fair share to the Island?

Ultimately it is the decision of Puerto Ricans and not the Mainlander population. Still, Mainlander Americans as well need to have a voice on this issue, since ultimately we are looking at an unprecedented scenario whereby a populous part of the United States might well go their own direction, simply because of inaction at the Federal level and ultimately an attempt to force an extremely unpopular austerity program down the necks of our fellow Americans.

I ask all of you on Atlas to contact your Senators and Representatives and tell them your opinions about the current plan of the Joint Finance Committee, and your disapproval of all the negative impacts that this austerity policy will cause.