The FPR, Round 2 (Passed)

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

While I share the sentiment, I worry that a precipitous withdrawal of all our military aid, would have a destabilizing effect on the global situation. I would require a meticulous process to withdraw it completely.

As for the Israel situation, if we must apply a tough standard, then my preference would be to establish some kind of provisional but full determination whereby the administration can reduce the level once they have attain the desired results.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Well? Any responses, counter compromise proposals?

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

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Sponsor Feedback: None
Status: Vote in 24 hours if that doesn't change.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

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Sponsor Feedback: Hostile
Status: A vote is now open on the above amendment, please vote Aye, Nay or Abstain.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

AYE

IF this fails, I plan to offer one next along the lines of what I discussed a few days ago.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

3-5-0-2 with Xahar and Maxwell not voting.


This one ends is 27 hours or so as well.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Vote on Amendment 57:16:

Aye (3): NC Yankee, TJ in Cleve and Tmthforu94
Nay (6): bore, Gass3268, Maxwell, Napoleon, sbane, and TNF
Abstain (0):

Didn't Vote (1): Xahar

The amendment has been rejected.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

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[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

From the looks of it, I ended the amendment three hours too early yesterday. Must have accidentally looked at the wrong bill's information.

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Status: A vote is now open on the above amendment, please vote Aye, Nay or Abstain.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Seriously people you are so knee jerk on this issue that you haven't even noticed that not only does my amendment give Nix the power to bump it up to Full Military but also Full Economic restrictions, should it be deemed as a practical means to attain compliance with the FPR's stated goals. Really

Are those goals not reflective? They should be changed, then. Do you not trust the administration? Does Nix not trust himself?

AYE

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I think we need to remember here that the current policy is actually quite moderate- we're not talking about economic sanctions, which would actually harm Israeli citizens, instead, all we're talking about is stopping Israel buying even more weapons from us. Considering that Israel has broken numerous international laws, and has a dodgy record on human rights, that, if anything seems to lenient.

I would not envision the use of economic sanctions. But as an arrow in the quiver so to speak to leverage them to the table if you know what I mean.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

.It seems to me that the president is not forced in to letting arms be sold if Israel only stops settlement building ("may") and this amendment gives us more options in trying to get a solution. On balance, Aye.

Partial military restriction do mean that some arms will be sold to Israel even without them complying with stopping settlements. The original version presented to the Senate had full military restrictions. This amendment is not about dialogue, it is about loosening the restrictions on Israel. Please reconsider your vote. Thanks!

Yes, and you will get that most likely. Unless you secretly believe that Nix is secretly Joe Lieberman.

And doesi t really matter at the end of the day whether or not the Senate inputs Full or not, as long as the results are attain in the end? Seriously, if Nix issues Full Military and threatens economic, do you really think the Israelis would not come to table? As horrible as they may seem, they are not North Korea and depend the at least some degree of support in the West, or the guarrantee of such as a means to better facilitate their own sense of security.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

.It seems to me that the president is not forced in to letting arms be sold if Israel only stops settlement building ("may") and this amendment gives us more options in trying to get a solution. On balance, Aye.

Partial military restriction do mean that some arms will be sold to Israel even without them complying with stopping settlements. The original version presented to the Senate had full military restrictions. This amendment is not about dialogue, it is about loosening the restrictions on Israel. Please reconsider your vote. Thanks!

The original text is not law or whatever. I beleive the previous FPR is the current standing set of relations or whatever. This is not about loosening restrictions on Israel for the simple reason that this present text does not represent our current realtions until it is law, and because it simply lets the administration make the determination on the use of higher or lower sanctions on either aspect, based on the lay of thel and and the likelihood that such designations will best attain the stated goals of the FPR regarding Israel. As I said before, if you want to change the stated goals, which also serves as a justification for said actions taken, then pray do so.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

A President threatening economic sanctions on an ally, is not hardball?

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Typically in diplomacy you never punch someone in the face unless you trying attain something worthwhile from doing so and typically the pleasure of having punched them in the face isn't to be listed amongst them. It is like poking a sleeping bear, or perhaps better yet, a bomb.

Seriously, where the hell is the dynamism? The GM team should be simulating reactiosn to this sh**t and with some degree of realism, which is why my amendment is the most practical and likely to achieve the desired results. It seems that people don't want to achieve the stated results or any results in this thread, they just want to punch someone in the face. That is brilliant means by which to find yourself in a war and I can bet your life that the likes of you guys will be counted as the most fervent of hawks when it happens, not.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

A President threatening economic sanctions on an ally, is not hardball?

I don't see anything about economic sanctions in your amendment.

The last sentence gives the administration the authority to up it to "full restrictions" without specifying a limit to military. It is thus an authortization to do so on both, as long as it is within the specific parameters, which are basically that such is a practical means to attain the desired objectives stated.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

This vote ends tomorrow by the way.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Vote on Amendment 57:21 by NC Yankee

Aye (5): bore, Maxwell, NC Yankee, TJ in Cleve and Tmthforu94
Nay (3): Gass3268, sbane and TNF
Abstain (0):

Didn't Vote (2): Napoleon and Xahar

With five votes in the affirmative and only three in the negative with time having expired, the amendment has been adopted.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

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Sponor Feedback: None Given
Status: Objective filed by Senator Tmthforu94. A vote is now open on the above amendment, please vote Aye, Nay or Abstain.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

NAY


You would think his name was President Αverroës Bush or something.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

3-5-0-2 w/ 3 days remaining

Napoleon and Xahar not voting.  I should just like copy and paste this to make it quicker.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

two days.


Anybody up for playing cards?

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Its been a few years but I think I could manage.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Less familiar with that, sbane. But we should have time for you to show me and then play one quick game of each.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

About an hour left on this vote.