Deeply disturbing

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I would point out that last night, Jimmie complained of "taking heat" for his vote in the original election. That was my last interaction with him once the voting booth was delayed being opened.

It prompted a discussion that someone else recently brought up to me and that is taking a possible look at secret balloting again. As difficult as it maybe to implement in a way that is trustworthy, I think we should at least discuss the possibility. Because whether it is people getting bitched at five days ago for how they voted, or bitched at now the end result is still the same. People are being mistreated because the votes are 100% public. If it would be practical, secret balloting would remove a lot of the aspects that invite misbehavior and tension, as well as the personal element.

It has long been my policy, to not contact people once they have voted. Simply because I have seen this happen way too many times for comfort. I wish that had been followed here.

And at the same time, I would say to Jimmie that I too plan to make this game as fun as possible.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

This game is taken way to seriously.

I have a few suggestions,

1) Someone needs to explore a practical way to create private voting.

2) No more asking people why they voted for someone, after that person voted. It is over and done.

3) No posting of PM's or anything related to Atlasia in public. Posting of PM's is not acceptable unless they are hostile or threatening.

4) Most of all.. this should be a fun game, not a serious game. People have been banned or disciplined on this forum over this game before.

I agree on points one and two.

Posting PMs is a TOS violation.

No one has been banned from the forum for actions in the game. People have been banned from the forum for TOS violations aimed at manipulating the game, such as socking/trolling etc.

The simple fact of the matter is IRC allows for rapid response, including not only voter intimidation, but vote buying as well. Short of secret balloting, I don't know how else one could put a lid on this and even then. I saw first hand some of the sleeze that went on in October 2015.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I would point out that last night, Jimmie complained of "taking heat" for his vote in the original election. That was my last interaction with him once the voting booth was delayed being opened.

It prompted a discussion that someone else recently brought up to me and that is taking a possible look at secret balloting again. As difficult as it maybe to implement in a way that is trustworthy, I think we should at least discuss the possibility. Because whether it is people getting bitched at five days ago for how they voted, or bitched at now the end result is still the same. People are being mistreated because the votes are 100% public. If it would be practical, secret balloting would remove a lot of the aspects that invite misbehavior and tension, as well as the personal element.

It has long been my policy, to not contact people once they have voted. Simply because I have seen this happen way too many times for comfort. I wish that had been followed here.

And at the same time, I would say to Jimmie that I too plan to make this game as fun as possible.

This is an election simulation game where shenanigans happen all too often.  A secret ballot means that accuracy cannot be adequately assured.

There will be nothing but accusations of shenanigans followed by the "supreme court" assuring us nothing is wrong...

I understand your reasoning NCY but secret ballots just won't work unless we literally have a computer compiling the results for us.  Where is beep boop when we need him?

Snowguy, I didn't suggest it originally. But whether it it is this thing in #SouthernChat or vote buying whatever you want to call what happened last October in #Atlasforum, we have a broken system now as it is.

Perhaps there is another way, but we need to have an open discussion to fix this. The last thing I want to see is us lose another player over bullsh**t. 

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

The only way to set up a secret ballot would be to have a moderator for the forum conduct the election.

He would receive the votes, tally them up and announce the winner. He could also determine poster validity, etc.

Poster could not be affiliated with either major party etc.

That IMO would be the best way to do a secret ballot.

Torie has a long history of being an independent. Badger unfortunately just gave up being a Mod. Gustaf is in a one member party. Cathcon is no longer registered, but he might consider it.

The one draw back to a mod is that there is no way to compel them to do it. It would be on a voluntary basis.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I do admire the pivot, though: Feds trying to frame the narrative as "why won't Labor endorse private voting?". Only one party is having any trouble restraining itself from harassment and illegal activities during elections. I say we make the Federalist Party private so nobody in the game has to see them. Nice attempt by Yankee at false equivalence there, though!

I suppose it was the invisible man that gave Jimmie flak over last weekend then.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I do admire the pivot, though: Feds trying to frame the narrative as "why won't Labor endorse private voting?". Only one party is having any trouble restraining itself from harassment and illegal activities during elections. I say we make the Federalist Party private so nobody in the game has to see them. Nice attempt by Yankee at false equivalence there, though!

I suppose it was the invisible man that gave Jimmie flak over last weekend then.

1) What y'all did is illegal

2) What y'all did is immoral, especially considering he's not in your party; two more minutes of harassment and it would have invalidated his ballot, something that very well may have been the intent if changing preference wasn't achieved

3) Any comments made to him by Labor were after the election, not during the window for successfully (and illegally) convincing someone to edit a ballot

4) If this is what you define as "flak", then bless your heart. I can't wait to hear about what other EARTH-SHATTERING comments from other party members supposedly meet that criteria

1. I didn't do anything. And had I not been busting my ass to earn an honest living at work, I would have been here to say no. I have already had it out with Dfw.

2. See number 1. Did Dfw ask him any point to change his vote? And in my opinion why does he have to vote for Blair, just because he is "in Labor". Through all my PMs to Feds, not one of them is on the basis of membership, it is on the basis of my ideas.

3. Were they?

4. Those were his words, not mine. Plus that "please remember your in labor" sounds rather intimidating to those whose are not as tough as you are Adam.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

It prompted a discussion that someone else recently brought up to me and that is taking a possible look at secret balloting again. As difficult as it maybe to implement in a way that is trustworthy, I think we should at least discuss the possibility. Because whether it is people getting bitched at five days ago for how they voted, or bitched at now the end result is still the same. People are being mistreated because the votes are 100% public. If it would be practical, secret balloting would remove a lot of the aspects that invite misbehavior and tension, as well as the personal element.

I, personally, would like to get back all the time I've spent over the past decade in Atlasia. That is about as possible as a secret ballot system free of fraud, supposing we even wanted it in the abstract (which I and other right-thinking people do not).

You have not been here a decade.


I would point out, Adam that you are the one getting so damn defensive over ideas being thrown out. You know they used to say I was to inflexible and too quick to shoot down ideas.

I will say again. A Laborite came to me with this idea, days ago. Jimmie said, "he took flak" after last weekend and perhaps from his perspective "remember you are in Labor" was something he considered inappropriate. Maybe someone else also contacted him. Who knows? But anyway, we discussed this last night as a possibility and then this happened.

Before I entered this thread, it was all about Labor milking this for all it is worth, and I foolish, naive stupid me, thought I could get a productive discussion in here.

Nope, we got to send out the minions to crap all over it and when that fails, time to send in the heavy artillery. Why does free discussion bother you so much?

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Sorry, guys, this thread is not about crazy private voting schemes or whatever other crazy insinuations of activity you're willing to make up. This thread is about the very illegal activity of multiple Yankee supporters and Federalist leaders to disenfranchise and intimidate someone who was not in the position to be on the receiving end of a barrage of harassing and threatening messages across multiple mediums.

It's very sad that instead of just saying "we're sorry" or "I don't condone this behavior", you instead want to be "BUT LABOR", despite the fact that there is no comparison to be made here. At all. Take some personal responsibility and care for your lives, for once.

Perhaps the eyesight is failing you for that "decade" of being in Atlasia.

Look, I come on here at midnight after a hard day at work. I see you making accusations, I see allegations of it being across multiple mediums. I said first post, ADAM. FIRST FING POST after I got in here." As policy, I do not approve of contacting voters after they voted". End of conversation.

I don't need to make up allegations. You forget, I was with you in #Atlasforum in October 2015. I know what goes on in there, and I would not be surprised if it still does.

I am sick and tired of you going on #Atlasforum saying whatever you need to get Blair elected. Whether it be questioning trying to benefit from people questioning my mental stability, or gloating about some nasty thing you did in the past to gain street cred.

I don't approve of what happened here today, but I also condemn with every damn bone in my body the crap you and your thugs have done to me since October 1st. And I am not going to take it lying down anymore.

Take your equivalency bs and shove it sideways.


 

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Sorry, guys, this thread is not about crazy private voting schemes or whatever other crazy insinuations of activity you're willing to make up. This thread is about the very illegal activity of multiple Yankee supporters and Federalist leaders to disenfranchise and intimidate someone who was not in the position to be on the receiving end of a barrage of harassing and threatening messages across multiple mediums.

It's very sad that instead of just saying "we're sorry" or "I don't condone this behavior", you instead want to be "BUT LABOR", despite the fact that there is no comparison to be made here. At all. Take some personal responsibility and care for your lives, for once.

Perhaps the eyesight is failing you for that "decade" of being in Atlasia.

Look, I come on here at midnight after a hard day at work. I see you making accusations, I see allegations of it being across multiple mediums. I said first post, ADAM. FIRST FING POST after I got in here." As policy, I do not approve of contacting voters after they voted". End of conversation.

I don't need to make up allegations. You forget, I was with you in #Atlasforum in October 2015. I know what goes on in there, and I would not be surprised if it still does.

I am sick and tired of you going on #Atlasforum saying whatever you need to get Blair elected. Whether it be questioning trying to benefit from people questioning my mental stability, or gloating about some nasty thing you did in the past to gain street cred.

I don't approve of what happened here today, but I also condemn with every damn bone in my body the crap you and your thugs have done to me since October 1st. And I am not going to take it lying down anymore.

Take your equivalency bs and shove it sideways.

You were quoting Xahar earlier, dum-dum: not me.

I thought it was someone else actually.

Did you challenge him?

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

The biggest problem with IRC, is stuff gets said and nobody challenges it. The worst case of this is Atlasforum.


For all I care, if you sit by, let people make nasty remarks like that and then try to milk the place for support. In my book, you might as well have said it.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Sorry, guys, this thread is not about crazy private voting schemes or whatever other crazy insinuations of activity you're willing to make up. This thread is about the very illegal activity of multiple Yankee supporters and Federalist leaders to disenfranchise and intimidate someone who was not in the position to be on the receiving end of a barrage of harassing and threatening messages across multiple mediums.

It's very sad that instead of just saying "we're sorry" or "I don't condone this behavior", you instead want to be "BUT LABOR", despite the fact that there is no comparison to be made here. At all. Take some personal responsibility and care for your lives, for once.

Perhaps the eyesight is failing you for that "decade" of being in Atlasia.

Look, I come on here at midnight after a hard day at work. I see you making accusations, I see allegations of it being across multiple mediums. I said first post, ADAM. FIRST FING POST after I got in here." As policy, I do not approve of contacting voters after they voted". End of conversation.

I don't need to make up allegations. You forget, I was with you in #Atlasforum in October 2015. I know what goes on in there, and I would not be surprised if it still does.

I am sick and tired of you going on #Atlasforum saying whatever you need to get Blair elected. Whether it be questioning trying to benefit from people questioning my mental stability, or gloating about some nasty thing you did in the past to gain street cred.

I don't approve of what happened here today, but I also condemn with every damn bone in my body the crap you and your thugs have done to me since October 1st. And I am not going to take it lying down anymore.

Take your equivalency bs and shove it sideways.


 

NCY... nobody doubts that you work hard.  Nobody doubts that you don't make up allegations.  Nobody doubts that you know what goes on here (you've been here since rocks cooled into cool rocks.)

Adam has every right to join #atlasforum and encourage people to vote for whomever Adam wishes people to vote for.  As do you.  But I suspect it's not the ability to get on #atlasforum and encourage people that you are worried about (your AOL dialup days are long gone)...

What you are mad about is Adam's effectiveness.  There's a reason his IRL job is the head of a county Democratic party.  He is Democrat.  He eats Nancy Pelosi for an after schooling snack.  He munches Chuck Schumer like cheese and crackers.  And those crackers are pretty buttery.

I'm not an Adam thug.  I have no problem nagging Adam until he relents.  Ask him.  I nag in a way that is both annoying and impressive in its annoyingness.  Naaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaag.

And as a 1st class nagalag... I say.. STOP WHINING HOLY CRAP.

Also... you don't shove equivalency sideways.. you shove it up your butt and around the corner.  These are things we learn in like 3rd grade.. I mean come on..

Snowguy, that is perhaps the biggest lie going that I cannot take a loss. How many times did I lose the PPTship, only to get it back. I lost my Senate seat, just like you and just like you I came back At-Large. I dealt with bgwah for years before I knew Adam Griffin from Joe Smith.

If it was just his skill out matching mine then I would have no problem. If it was just Blair out contesting me on ideas or campaign structure. That would be no problem.

What I have a problem with is this notion that you have this clique, and the narrative has already been set by them "This is a good player, this is a bad player". "This guy, would make a great President, but this guy is unfit". It is all arbitrary, it is mostly personal and it is all exclusive in a way that shuts people out and I don't like it. It followed those same posters to AAD, "These posters are a joke, these people are lame! Lol Atlasia full of socks and newbies". It's almost to point of Bill Clinton's racist jab at Obama,"ten year's ago this guy would be getting us our coffee". 

I used to be on #Atlas forum, even when I had dial up. I didn't leave #Atlasforum because I had dial up. I left #Atlasforum because I realized something about the place was negative. The discussion was degrading from a level of quality, where anyone from Atlasia or otherwise could turn up, to one where only a certain set felt welcomed. And no sooner did I leave, than I became their next target. I think that says it all. It is understandable to get mad and vent a couple of times, but the steady ongoing, multi-year personal animus. Its insane, really.

And yet for four damn years we have tolerated this crap?

As bad, as bitter and as partisan as it was in the JCP era and even in 2012, I never felt like I had choose between a group of elites (disdainful of everyone else) and everyone else. I made my choice in 2013.

I want Atlasia to be a more open and competitive place than #Atlasforum allows for.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

NCY.. I poke fun at your computer problems (while totally sympathizing with you.. I'm very happy that you have been able to upgrade.)  And I know you can take a loss.

But here I would say you need to pick your battles.  Adam "bribing" people into voting for Blair is not the one you should pick.  I was in the room in the time.  You can see from the log that it was nothing serious.  Nobody was acting or even intending to act outside of the law.

I wish you the best in the runoff election... but if you lose, it won't be because Adam was bribing people into voting for Blair.  What could Adam even give people?

As for #atlasforum... it's negative all the time.  And for a long time it was pretty toxic.  But not really now... there are more important things to discuss... like our IRL federal election in 11 days.  And you being there would not hurt.

I'm not asking you to trust me blindly... but I really want to impress on you that nothing fishy was going on.  Adam was simply encouraging people to vote.  I don't suspect any maliciousness on your part or on his part.  You are well matched in experience and in opposing each other.  Let it go.  Jimmie has.  You can too.

If I say yes, can we finally get back to discussing ideas be it secret balloting or some other option?