Israel-Gaza war

[Ancestral Republican]

Recently a member of this forum brought up "blood libel" in a context where that appellation wasn't appropriate, so it was interesting that this story broke soon after. If you replaced the proper nouns in this article with any historical time period in which blood libel atrocities occurred, it would be identical, right down to the missing child pretense for the violence.

JERUSALEM -- Dozens of Israeli settlers stormed into a Palestinian village in the Israeli-occupied West Bank on Friday, shooting and setting houses and cars on fire. The rampage killed a Palestinian man and wounded 25 others, Palestinian health officials said.

The violence was the latest in an escalation in the West Bank that has accompanied Israel's war in the Gaza Strip. An Israeli rights group said the settlers were searching for a missing 14-year-old boy from their settlement. After the rampage, Israeli troops said they were still searching for the teen.

Source: https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/israeli-settlers-rampage-west-bank-village-killing-1-109173465

FWIW the teen's body was later found in the settlement he disappeared from. The IDF attributes it to a "terror attack" but the investigation is ongoing.

[Ancestral Republican]

Isn’t the current governing coalition in Israel dependent on staunchly pro-settler parties anyway?

Not only that, but a pro-settler lunatic (Ben Gvir) is the current security minister. I read multiple accounts at the time suggesting his focus on directing defense resources towards the facilitation of illegal settlements was part of the intelligence breakdown that led to the 10/7 attack. Since then he's done nothing but inflame tensions and go on a bizarre crusade against gun laws.

[Ancestral Republican]

FWIW also it's unfair to paint all Israelis as supporters of settler violence. There is a lot of opposition to illegal settlements even amongst the Israeli right. If for no other reason that they inherently create more security risks and aren't really necessary for anything but nationalist/expansionist purposes.

[Ancestral Republican]

This is all the more reason to not attack Gaza.

Of course this isn’t really about Hamas or the hostages, it’s about reversing what Israel did in 2005 and going even further.

Well, Israel wouldn't have attacked Gaza, if Hamas hadn't decided to start a war on 10/7.

Palestine doesn't get immunity from the consequences of their attacks just because they're weak and vulnerable.  Being so terrible at protecting your own people that any war you start will inevitably result in lots of them dying is not the invincibility star from super mario bros.

So Palestinian civilians deserve to die because of Hamas?

[Ancestral Republican]

This is all the more reason to not attack Gaza.

Of course this isn’t really about Hamas or the hostages, it’s about reversing what Israel did in 2005 and going even further.

Well, Israel wouldn't have attacked Gaza, if Hamas hadn't decided to start a war on 10/7.

Palestine doesn't get immunity from the consequences of their attacks just because they're weak and vulnerable.  Being so terrible at protecting your own people that any war you start will inevitably result in lots of them dying is not the invincibility star from super mario bros.

So Palestinian civilians deserve to die because of Hamas?

I mean, that's basically what happens in literally ever war started by a barbaric, sadistic government that is willing to sacrifice its people.

The best chance to avoid this catastrophe was a multi-national coalition to invade Gaza and depose Hamasd on day one. Sadly, that window has passed.

If Bibi actually cared about Hamas and avoiding any catastrophe, he would have bombed their Qatar mansions out of orbit. But he's said - out loud - that there can be no election during a war. So he wants to prolong it, and his rule, as long and inefficiently as possible and doesn't care how many people get killed.
Bibi and Hamas have a mutually beneficial symbiotic relationship.

[Ancestral Republican]

This is all the more reason to not attack Gaza.

Of course this isn’t really about Hamas or the hostages, it’s about reversing what Israel did in 2005 and going even further.

Well, Israel wouldn't have attacked Gaza, if Hamas hadn't decided to start a war on 10/7.

Palestine doesn't get immunity from the consequences of their attacks just because they're weak and vulnerable.  Being so terrible at protecting your own people that any war you start will inevitably result in lots of them dying is not the invincibility star from super mario bros.

So Palestinian civilians deserve to die because of Hamas?

I mean, that's basically what happens in literally ever war started by a barbaric, sadistic government that is willing to sacrifice its people.

The best chance to avoid this catastrophe was a multi-national coalition to invade Gaza and depose Hamasd on day one. Sadly, that window has passed.

If Bibi actually cared about Hamas and avoiding any catastrophe, he would have bombed their Qatar mansions out of orbit. But he's said - out loud - that there can be no election during a war. So he wants to prolong it, and his rule, as long and inefficiently as possible and doesn't care how many people get killed.
Bibi and Hamas have a mutually beneficial symbiotic relationship.

I think that would have been a genuine red line for the Americans - for some reason, we have an overly close relationship with the absolute worst Emirate.

You're probably right.

[Ancestral Republican]

If Bibi actually cared about Hamas and avoiding any catastrophe, he would have bombed their Qatar mansions out of orbit. But he's said - out loud - that there can be no election during a war. So he wants to prolong it, and his rule, as long and inefficiently as possible and doesn't care how many people get killed.
Bibi and Hamas have a mutually beneficial symbiotic relationship.

As the drone flies, it's a 1,760km journey from Ramon to Doha, most of it over Saudi airspace. The Saudis have some pretty capable air defence.

So too, does Qatar, being one of the richest places on Earth.

Saudi Arabia allegedly hates Qatar (even though they're just two sides of same the inbred blood money sportswashing Gulf monarchy coin.) For example Al Jazeera was already banned in SA before it was banned in Israel. They should help 'em out.

[Ancestral Republican]

Ireland, Spain and Norway say they will recognize a Palestinian state

CNN - Ireland, Spain and Norway have announced plans to formally recognize a Palestinian state next week, in a move that is likely to bolster the global Palestinian cause but further strain relations between Europe and Israel.

The three European nations say their landmark decision is the best way to achieve lasting peace in the Middle East, but it sparked swift condemnation from Israel, as its foreign minister ordered the immediate recall of its ambassadors from those countries.

Most of the world already recognizes Palestinian statehood. More than 140 out of 193 member states of the United Nations have made their recognition official. But only some nations in the 27-member European Union are among them.

Irish Prime Minister Simon Harris told a Wednesday news conference in Dublin: “Today, Ireland, Norway and Spain are announcing that we recognize the state of Palestine. Each of us will now undertake whatever national steps are necessary to give effect to that decision.”

[...]

https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/22/middleeast/palestinian-statehood-spain-norway-ireland-intl/index.html

Belgium will likely follow. It's just one government party (MR) that is standing on the brakes here, but I suspect we will eventually recognise Palestine as well.

Belgium is likely the next country to recognize Palestine.

You do realize it’s merely recognizing Palestine in Gaza, West Bank and East Jerusalem, land that everyone knows Israel would allow to be in a Palestinian state in a negotiated treaty. Israel even offered this to Palestinians in 2000 and they said no.

Unfortunately you guys want to destroy Israel more than you seek a thriving Palestinian state.

Yoav Gallant just today announced that formerly demolished illegal settlements in the West Bank will be re-established.

[Ancestral Republican]

Wow.

https://twitter.com/BarakRavid/status/1795108612777415143

[Ancestral Republican]

Wow.

https://twitter.com/BarakRavid/status/1795108612777415143

The suggestion is that no warning was sent before launching the strike.

A Bibi mea culpa is most unusual. He may sense this could backfire on him spectacularly particularly since Biden had already identified this as being a "red line" - I'm guessing there is a heated US State Department dialogue occurring at the moment.

[Ancestral Republican]

Not sure if this got posted already but, damn. This sure won't improve Bibi's position.

 https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c51108le52xo

[Ancestral Republican]

Israel are saying they have the proof that the fire was not their weapons.

Yes, a likely story.

We're all trying to find the guy who did this.

[Ancestral Republican]

The second Trump wins the election (if he wins, which looks increasingly likely) Netanyahu will withdraw all troops from Gaza. Biden only gave him 99% of what he wanted, and that's not enough for the most pampered, entitled country on the planet.

The fact that supposed moderates like Gantz still haven't pulled their war cabinet support to stop this madness reflects awfully on their character too. This is a very sick society.

Leftists are completely delusional about what Palestinian culture is. They think this is some indigenous, peaceful tribe like Mayan civilization in 3000 BC (of course they are wrong about this too) when you listen to some of their language. Unfortunately, reality on the ground suggests if given the capacity they would kill every Jewish person they could.

I'm sure bombing refugee camps will totally change their culture.

Both Gantz and Galland gave a three week deadline that hasn’t passed yet

Not holding my breath.

What is your solution to the conflict then? Eliminate Israel's Jewish majority?

Yeah.

End of minority rule (apartheid).

Glad you finally just came clean about the end game. You danced around it for months. Why is it that Israel gets eliminated but other countries like the Netherlands, Hungary, Romania don't? Couldn't at all be because of the country's Jewish majority? There is no minority rule because the West Bank and Gaza are to be part of a Palestinian state, not Israel.

A one united Democratic Palestine state that grantees the equal rights to Arabs and Jews is the best outcome for all parties involved. When people say they support a one party state they're not talking about wiping an ethnic group out of the region. A state in which is neutral in the ruling of ethnicity will help bring justice to the region while a two-state solution is "separate but equal" proposal. Palestine will still be under threat under a solution where Israel still has the power to invade the nation.

So no Israel? you basically just admitted you want the destruction of Israel?

I don't really agree with his proposal but good Lord, this is the dumbest possible interpretation. Log off for a while and work on your reading comprehension, my goodness.

[Ancestral Republican]

The second Trump wins the election (if he wins, which looks increasingly likely) Netanyahu will withdraw all troops from Gaza. Biden only gave him 99% of what he wanted, and that's not enough for the most pampered, entitled country on the planet.

The fact that supposed moderates like Gantz still haven't pulled their war cabinet support to stop this madness reflects awfully on their character too. This is a very sick society.

Leftists are completely delusional about what Palestinian culture is. They think this is some indigenous, peaceful tribe like Mayan civilization in 3000 BC (of course they are wrong about this too) when you listen to some of their language. Unfortunately, reality on the ground suggests if given the capacity they would kill every Jewish person they could.

I'm sure bombing refugee camps will totally change their culture.

Both Gantz and Galland gave a three week deadline that hasn’t passed yet

Not holding my breath.

What is your solution to the conflict then? Eliminate Israel's Jewish majority?

Yeah.

End of minority rule (apartheid).

Glad you finally just came clean about the end game. You danced around it for months. Why is it that Israel gets eliminated but other countries like the Netherlands, Hungary, Romania don't? Couldn't at all be because of the country's Jewish majority? There is no minority rule because the West Bank and Gaza are to be part of a Palestinian state, not Israel.

A one united Democratic Palestine state that grantees the equal rights to Arabs and Jews is the best outcome for all parties involved. When people say they support a one party state they're not talking about wiping an ethnic group out of the region. A state in which is neutral in the ruling of ethnicity will help bring justice to the region while a two-state solution is "separate but equal" proposal. Palestine will still be under threat under a solution where Israel still has the power to invade the nation.

So no Israel? you basically just admitted you want the destruction of Israel?

I don't really agree with his proposal but good Lord, this is the dumbest possible interpretation. Log off for a while and work on your reading comprehension, my goodness.

I mean, he says right above you "Yes, Israel will cease to exist and be replaced with Palestine".

They can talk all they want about equal rights for all, but we know it won't play out like that. The best case scenario is that the Jews of Israel flee into the diaspora in this scenario, the most likely outcome is that the borders are slammed shut first.

A two-state solution with a hard border is the only workable option now. What that looks like will depend heavily on how many hostages are still alive.

I mean, that's not at all inherently true, but at the present time it is not viable or likely for the reasons you said which is why I don't agree with the idea.
That was just a comically bad-faith and unintelligent reply from Rubensim whose account is replete with such takes in the short time it's existed.

[Ancestral Republican]

In case you're still under the impression defending Israel's actions unconditionally means protecting Jews...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_David_Ben_Avraham

Soldier got six days in prison for this btw. This was months ago but I didn't hear about it until wikipedia featured it in the "did you know" section of the homepage. It may seem like a minor incident to most but it struck me. Gunning down an unarmed Jew. As the homeland of the Jews.