Opinion of Edward Snowden

[Antonio the Sixth]

Clearly a FF.

I still haven't heard a single rational argument against him... and I'm as much of a neocon as a leftist can be.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Lots of Joe McCarthy wannabes in this thread...

[Antonio the Sixth]

HP, traitor.

Basically. I've laid out before what I find objectionable about Snowden although I'll say that he's not as awful as his counterpart internet hero Bradley Manning.

From what I remember (apologies if I'm wrong), your main points for disliking him were that his admirers come from an utterly insufferable crowd (which is absolutely true) and that you personally have no issue with being spied over (which is a legitimate position). All this, however, says nothing about Snowden's character or the legitimacy of his actions.

[Antonio the Sixth]

HP, traitor.

Basically. I've laid out before what I find objectionable about Snowden although I'll say that he's not as awful as his counterpart internet hero Bradley Manning.

From what I remember (apologies if I'm wrong), your main points for disliking him were that his admirers come from an utterly insufferable crowd (which is absolutely true) and that you personally have no issue with being spied over (which is a legitimate position). All this, however, says nothing about Snowden's character or the legitimacy of his actions.

No, Snowden revealed himself very quickly to be a delusional narcissist who makes sanctimonious pronouncements about Civil Liberties (and implying he'll be assassinated like Malcolm X) while seeking asylum in Putin's Russia. The fact that he leaked privileged security information as part of some bizarre messianic complex in a marginally less reckless way than Bradley Manning doesn't speak to his "character". Leaking information about the NSA does nothing to make anyone in the United States or out of it safer and only serves to allow Vladimir Putin and Latin American demagogues (and, er, Flanby) to loudly pontificate about AMERIKKKA to distract from the various levels of ongoing disaster in their own countries.

If Snowden believes that he did the right thing, as he claims to, he should have stayed in the US and stood trial, not fled to one of the most tyrannical regimes in the developed world while still preposterously attempting to hold some kind of moral high ground.

Yes, I see why some aspects of Snowden's character are quite problematic and he doesn't seem very bright. I certainly don't think he should be the leader or the spokesman for any political movement. What I simply think is that, misguided as he might be, he still helped further a just cause by putting himself in serious trouble. And I think that's still commendable.

But about standing for trial, come on. You sure know that what is right and what is lawful aren't always the same, even in a mostly free country like the US. If Snowden thinks (as I happen to do) that he hasn't done anything wrong, there's no reason why he should quietly wait to be thrown in jail. I fail to see how accepting to pay an unjust price is a sign of moral righteousness. Sure, it's unfortunate that he had to go to Russia (if European countries grew a spine, they would have sent a little message to Obama and granted him asylum), but a little opportunism is by far the lesser evil.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Yeah, I have to admit it hurts to be on the same side as Grumps, Snowstalker and Opebo.

[Antonio the Sixth]

FF. There's one big question I have not yet to be heard answered, which is why what he did was wrong and who it hurt. The only points I hear are that his supporters are annoying (completely irrelevant) and that the NSA surveillance is fairly overblown (true but not really my point.) However the question is not that, but is the NSA surveillance programs a good thing. You see, I have a tough time seeing how one can justify that it is without resorting to circa 2004 right wing rhetoric like "OMG TERRORISM! DEFENDING OUR FREEDOMS!" which is utter bullsh!t and always will be. If you can make a good case that the stuff he exposed is the only thing preventing another 9/11 (because of course al-Qaeda is known for communicating in those venues) and that his actions actually assist terrorists, then go ahead, but I can't see how it's the case. Therefore he did nothing wrong.

It says something when BRTD is the one making most sense in a thread.