What if the Democrats moderated on abortion? (user search)
       |           

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
June 02, 2024, 03:27:29 AM
News: Election Simulator 2.0 Released. Senate/Gubernatorial maps, proportional electoral votes, and more - Read more

  Talk Elections
  General Politics
  U.S. General Discussion (Moderators: The Dowager Mod, Chancellor Tanterterg)
  What if the Democrats moderated on abortion? (search mode)
Pages: [1]
Author Topic: What if the Democrats moderated on abortion?  (Read 4642 times)
Antonio the Sixth
Antonio V
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 58,357
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.87, S: -3.83

P P
« on: January 21, 2017, 01:00:55 AM »

Quote from: Restricted
You must be logged in to read this quote.

Put the limit at 21-22 weeks and that would be my ideal position.

As well as the consensus in most European countries.
Logged
Antonio the Sixth
Antonio V
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 58,357
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.87, S: -3.83

P P
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2017, 03:00:02 AM »

Quote from: Restricted
You must be logged in to read this quote.

Put the limit at 21-22 weeks and that would be my ideal position.

As well as the consensus in most European countries.

I'm curious, would you support putting it earlier if technological advances continued to push the time of viability-with-medical-intervention earlier? Genuine question.

That's a tough question. On the one hand, viability with medical intervention could actually be an argument for allowing the termination of pregnancy, since it means that this can be done without ending the fetus' life. On the other hand, of course, I can imagine that the procedures involved might cause long-term harm, and, more horrifyingly than anything else, might be considered "too expensive" to be performed systematically (those are all conjectures - I admit I know very little about the medical issues surrounding pregnancy).

In this case, I assume the pro-life argument would be that since the fetus can (at least theoretically) survive without a mother, it should have the same right to life (and to avoid permanent non-lethal harm) as any other human being who can survive with medical assistance but wouldn't on its own. Is that correct?

I must say that this is not an argument I find very appealing. Even knowing that we can't avoid using a biological criterion as a basis for defining personhood (something which I'll never be happy with at a theoretical level), the ability to survive independently from the mother is one I find particularly unpleasant to consider. It seems to imply that humanity is defined by some measure of "self-sufficiency" (as partial as it might be). I find that philosophically unsavory. And beyond that, there's something seriously sketchy about a definition of personhood that relies on factors entirely independent from the would-be person. What makes a person a person must be the same in 2070 as it was in 1970.

I'm still a lot more comfortable with definitions based on cognitive capacities, such as the ability to feel pain. I would still say that even if viability was the latter point in time.
Logged
Antonio the Sixth
Antonio V
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 58,357
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.87, S: -3.83

P P
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2017, 02:12:51 PM »

That makes sense. I apologize for assuming you cited the stage you did for viability reasons.

I actually didn't know that viability occurred so early. Apparently by the 24th week there's already a 50% chance of survival - my guess would have been somewhere around the 30th. Legal issues aside, that's very heartening to know.

I cited 20-22 weeks mainly because there seems to be almost no demand for abortions beyond that point (and the abortions that are performed are usually to protect the mother's life, which I don't think anyone will object to). I knew that fetal pain only occurred much later (research suggests 29-30 weeks), but since I consider even this criterion (like every other biological milestone) to be inherently arbitrary, I'd much rather err on the side of caution. It also seems that higher brain activity begins at 22-24 weeks, so a 22 weeks ban would also respect this. I don't really understand why many American pro-choicers are so passionate about allowing late-term abortions.


Quote
You must be logged in to read this quote.

My guess was that such procedures might result in long-term harm to the fetus' health (but I might be completely wrong). If that is the case, I do think there's a somewhat coherent argument against terminating a pregnancy. It could even be defended from a certain pro-choice perspective. Still, it's not an argument I can accept.
Logged
Pages: [1]  
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Terms of Service - DMCA Agent and Policy - Privacy Policy and Cookies

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

Page created in 0.027 seconds with 10 queries.