Westman Timeline Pt. I (user search)
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Author Topic: Westman Timeline Pt. I  (Read 187372 times)
Mechaman
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« Reply #225 on: March 06, 2011, 07:30:52 PM »
« edited: March 06, 2011, 07:37:35 PM by Mechaman »

Baucus Radio Ad: A Day in the Life of Scott Westman
Original Airdate: May 8th, 1984:


Dark scary synthesizer music starts playing.
Ever wondered what it's like to be Scott Westman?
Westman: In your dreams you middle class honky!
Ever wondered what it's like to wake up as Scott Westman?
Westman: Sorry Mister President for being late, I had a long night with some Olympic twin gymnasts and a bottle of Morgans.
Ever wondered what it's like to have such a responsible job as Scott Westman?
Westman: It's just this week has been so slow and boring, I think I spent more time at the bar then I have being at the office.  At least I went home with that cute waitress.
Ever wondered what it's like to be carefree like Scott Westman?
Westman: Yeah she's male, but with that *** who am I to judge?
Or how about the perks?
Westman: Y'know this job wouldn't be worth it if it weren't for all the nice perks that come with it, if y'know what I mean sweetie.  So, how does Saturday work for you?
Ever wondered what it's like to have a job for six years and put forth very little effort?  Just ask Scott!
Westman: You know I was about to say something about how exciting this all is until I realized I haven't done jack squat in like six months and how much I'm pretending to care about your gay proposal.
Gee what a charming and swell guy!  We would hate to have someone else running for the governorship, someone who puts too much effort into his job and doesn't take advantage of the "perks" of office!  Somebody like:
Max Baucus.  Oh wait, you mean Max Baucus is running?  We're going to have a governor who cares about working and won't have tons of care free promiscuous sex funded by the taxpayers?  Oh man, I don't want to hear about all of the good stuff, like increased veterans benefits, protection of union rights, and a stronger state health system that Max Baucus will implement if he's elected as the Democratic governor!  Otherwise I would go to the voting booth on May 22nd and vote for him in the Democratic Primary!  Oh god save us!


The sarcastic radio ad that had audio clips of things Westman actually said while in the US Senate and to reporters would result in another big jump for Baucus, who now had a five point lead on Westman.  Many commentators would conclude that his portrayal of Scott Westman as a libertine who lives off of tax payer money and does very little towards his actual job went a long way.

Scott Westman, however, wasn't about ready to let this sh*t slide.
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Mechaman
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« Reply #226 on: March 06, 2011, 07:36:07 PM »

May 9th, 1984
Billings, Montana:


Scott Westman is at a news conference to address his opponent Max Baucus ads.
Westman: It has become apparent to me that the esteemed Senator has no interest in playing nice.  Well that's fair Senator, let's see how much mean you can take.
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Mechaman
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« Reply #227 on: March 06, 2011, 10:59:04 PM »
« Edited: March 06, 2011, 11:05:33 PM by Mechaman »

Why does reading about Westman's social life always make me feel jealous & lonely? Sad

Well he has 24 years on you, so I wouldn't lose too much sleep over it.

Also keep in mind that he said a lot of this stuff quoted by the Baucus commercial was during his first three years (1977-1980) in the US Senate.  The sole exceptions are the comment where he calls a fellow Senator's legislative idea "gay" in May 1982 and the "Middle Class honky" comment he jokingly made to Joseph Biden after Biden told a group of reporters that Westman was going to buy everybody in DC free drinks in October of 1981.  1981 and onward he settles down quite a bit once he starts seeing Caroline Kennedy, though he isn't completely monogamous (this is implied in the entries with Maria Cantwell).  It remains to be seen, after marrying Caroline Kennedy in July 1983, if Scott Westman will be able to stay completely monogamous after failing to in the two years they dated.

Also, considering that he did someone who was technically a dude (and he loved it) I wouldn't feel too jealous if I were you.
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Mechaman
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« Reply #228 on: March 07, 2011, 12:00:22 AM »
« Edited: October 14, 2011, 10:47:09 AM by Big Dumb Sex, the Live Version! »

So, what do you think about the Baucus Campaign's recent ads against Scott Westman?:

Joseph Biden:
He had me at "middle class honky".
Lawrence Watson: Meh I think the ads were kind of gay.
Morris Udall: Oh so that's what it was?  I thought those were ads about increasing sexual stamina.....huh.
Mendelik D'Israeli: As a citizen of Montana I think it's kind of sad as to how low the Baucus campaign is going to score a few approval points.  Who cares how much wealth Scott Westman has?  Who cares about some joke comments he made while in the US Senate?  Let's just keep this all focused on the issues relating to the Gubernatorial campaign.
David Walters: Perhaps a little hard hitting and rude with the sarcasm, but I can't really say I didn't see it coming.  Scott Westman kind of set himself up for it by having a freewheeling lifestyle while in the Senate.  He should've seen this coming.
John Warner: Anything that keeps Scott Westman away from political office is a good thing.  The man is a menace.
John Chafee: I don't have a high opinion of Mister Westman but I must say that the ads are a bit abrasive in some ways.  That said I think it's a great new strategy.
Steve Symms: A man of Westman's lifestyle is best staying where he belongs: away from political office.
Jacqueline Kennedy: It seems that politics have reached a whole new low when a man has to be dragged through the dirt just for political gain.  Max Baucus personal attacks hurt more than Scott Westman, they affect those closest to him too.  I want him to stop it.
Joseph P. Kennedy II: Low disgusting tactic.  Sure Scott isn't the most serious of politicians but when it comes time to doing his job he does a damn fine job of it.  And I will have you know that whatever amount of screwing around Scott Westman did in the past isn't happening now.  Max Baucus is deliberately bringing up Westman's past to win political gain.  That in my opinion is low.
Caroline Kennedy Westman: I do not appreciate his attack ads at all.  My husband is no angel but to have the Senator bring up his past behavior as an indication of who he is now is low.  Me and Scott have been through a lot, he has poured his heart out to me, he's told me of his failures even as hard as they were.  He is my husband, I am his wife.  Therefore I will stand by him.  I love him.
Adrian Moore: I guess Max has gone tired of his current job occupation and is looking for early retirement.
Tobin MacMahon: Frankly I've always found Mister Westman to be a spirited man and I believe that the ad by Max Baucus best exudes that.  We need more characters like Westman.  Okay maybe not morally but in terms of oratory and good jokes?  Definitely need more of that.
George Carlin: The bit about the middle class honky made me laugh.
Eddie Murphy: That Scott Westman dude from Montana: totally badass.  I mean I thought I was good with the ladies but damn!  Twin Olympic gymnasts?  Man of the Year material definitely.
Jodie Foster: Oh silly Max Baucus, thinking that bringing out Scott Westman's uncontrollable sex drive will stop him.
Beauregard D'Israeli: I always knew that Scott Westman was really a blue blooded richie, just like I always knew that Max Baucus is a raging moralf****t in need of a beheading.  Once I'm president and capital punishment is back on the express lane his will be the first to go.
Thad O'Connor: I thought it was an SNL parody at first.
Randy Rhoads: I'm sorry I don't keep up with politics.  Oz did though, God rest his soul.
James Carter: Such mudslinging has no place in a proper society.
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Mechaman
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« Reply #229 on: March 07, 2011, 01:05:08 AM »

This is CNN, May 13th, 1984
Interview Excerpt from Caroline Westman:

King:
Now we all know about the campaign between your husband and Max Baucus.  How has it affected you emotionally?
Caroline: It just it hits here y'know (points to her heart).  I mean Scott had a life before me I know it.  It wasn't perfect but ever since then he has done the very best he can to get it back together.  It's just so outrageous that Max Baucus would go back into his past and bring up his numerous affairs and (chokes up) it's just a painful experience to live through.
King: So I take it that it was a very serious deal with you?
Caroline: Yes it was.  I was appalled that he slept around behind me when we were dating King.  It was the hardest thing in the world for me to forgive him but y'know it's just (sobs) I love him so much Larry.  More than anybody in the world and I just wanted to spend the rest of my life with him so I let it go.
King: Well apparently this is a very emotional issue.
Caroline: I mean yes he messed up, but he's made great gains in the way he lives his life King.  There hasn't been a day since we been married that we haven't seen each other.  We have spent almost every moment together on this campaign.  Ever since getting married in July we haven't been a day apart.  And now we're having a child together.  I don't appreciate when a man like that comes up saying things like this about my husband I just don't.
King: You're pregnant?
Caroline: Yes.

The news that Caroline Westman was pregnant would end up affecting the Montana state race as people began to see the portrayal of Scott Westman in the Baucus ad as being out of line.  As a result Westman would come back up in the polls to within a point of Baucus.
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Mechaman
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« Reply #230 on: March 07, 2011, 08:43:29 AM »
« Edited: March 07, 2011, 05:09:03 PM by Mechaman »


That reminds me:

March 19th, 1982
CBS News:

Rather:
Today we bring you some tragic news.  This morning while at a tour stop is Leesburg, Florida White Knight vocalist John Michael Osbourne, otherwise known to his fans as "Johnny", was found dead in his touring bus after suffering a cocaine overdose.  The progressive rock vocalist was well known for his public struggles with alcoholism and drugs as well as controversial moments like when he bit the head off of a duck on stage.  White Knight's lead guitarist, one Randy Rhoads, says that at the moment the band is uncertain about it's immediate future.  One of Osbourne's closest friends, Bon Scott of Air Conditoner, says that the loss is very tragic and that progressive rock has lost one of it's most legendary frontmen.
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Mechaman
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« Reply #231 on: March 08, 2011, 11:29:11 PM »

seeing as you're active, any butterflies on Rush, the Doors, Led Zeppelin, YES, etc?

I'll make this quick because I should be studying for my Intermediate Accounting II test tomorrow.

Rush: No real change here, except that Rush is one of the most successful rock bands of the mid 80's, selling 6 million records of their album "Perspectives" in the US in 1983
the Doors: Are currently on their first reunion tour after splitting up eight years earlier.
Led Zeppelin: Are currently in the studio working on their first album since 1981 (entitled "Xanadu").  Their newest album, to be released on October 9th, 1984 will be entitled "Shangri La".  Rolling Stone Magazine, however, still hates them for some reason.
Yes: Also despised by Rolling Stone Magazine, Yes (like Rush) is one of the most successful rock bands of the mid 80's.  In the early 1980's Progressive Rock makes a comeback as bands like Rush, Yes, Crimson Tide (Crimson King IOTL), The Mark (Boston IOTL, but a lot more prog rock sounding), and White Knight (has the Oz in it, but it's not really an alternate TL version of Sabbath.  Does have a few members of OTL Blue Oyster Cult and Deep Purple along with Michael Schneiker of UFO (in the early years) and Randy Rhoads (1979-present)).  Yes is currently in the process of recording a new album that is speculated to be released anytime from December 1984 to as late as sometime in late 1985.
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Mechaman
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« Reply #232 on: March 09, 2011, 01:01:12 PM »
« Edited: March 09, 2011, 04:00:59 PM by Mechaman »


Individual Autonomy: strongly agree*
penalize outsourcing: strongly disagree*
faithbased charities: disagree
foreign aid: strongly disagree*
education funding: strongly agree*
heterosexual rights more important: strongly disagree*
free trade sucks: strongly disagree*
reduce government programs: usually agree
abortion should be illegal or restricted: disagree
funding for the arts: usually agree
government subsidized health insurance: strongly agree*
censorship: strongly disagree*
unfair that wealthy people pay higher taxes: usually disagree
minimum wage should be raised: neutral
marijauna legalization: strongly agree*
forced equality: neutral
freedom for security: strongly disagree*
excessive regulation on industry: usually disagree*
government should provide basic needs for all people: neutral
death penalty: strongly disagree*
reduce difficulty of immigration: agree
Union protection: strongly disagree*
prostitution: agree
flag burn ban: strongly disagree*
affirmative action: usually agree
tariffs: strongly disagree*
euthanasia: strongly agree*

(based on the test results)

Social: -9.39 (yes pretty loony when you think about it)
Economic: 0.65 (economically right Democrat)
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Mechaman
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« Reply #233 on: March 09, 2011, 01:37:33 PM »
« Edited: March 09, 2011, 02:48:28 PM by Mechaman »

Time for some party averages:

Democrats:
Individual autonomy is important: agree
Penalize outsourcing: Usually Disagree
Faith based organizations: neutral
Increase foreign aid: usually agree
Increase education: agree
Heterosexual rights more important: Disagree
Free trade sucks: usually disagree
reduce government: neutral
abortion restrictions: usually agree
arts funding: usually agree
health insurance:  agree
censorship: disagree
wealthy pay more tax unfair: disagree
Minimum wage raise: usually agree
marijuana legalization: usually agree
forcing equality: neutral
sacrificing freedom for security: disagree
excessive industry regulations: usually disagree
basic needs provided by government: usually agree
death penalty: usually disagree
immigration difficulty reduction: agree
Union protection: neutral
Prostitution legalization: usually disagree
Ban flag burning: disagree
affirmative action: usually agree
tariffs: usually disagree
euthanasia: usually disagree

Economic: -2.32
Social: -3.13
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Mechaman
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« Reply #234 on: March 09, 2011, 01:53:45 PM »

Republican average views:

Individual autonomy is important: usually agree
Penalize outsourcing: usually disagree
Faith Based organizations: neutral
Increase foreign aid: disagree
Increase education funding: usually disagree
heterosexual rights more important: neutral
Free trade sucks: usually disagree
reduce government: agree
abortion restrictions: neutral
arts funding: disagree
health insurance: disagree
censorship: neutral
wealthy pay more tax unfair: usually agree
Minimum wage raise: disagree
marijuana legalization: usually agree
forced equality: usually agree
sacrificing freedom for security: disagree
excessive industry regulations: usually agree
basic needs provided by the government: usually disagree
death penalty: usually agree
reducing difficulty of immigration: neutral
union protection: disagree
Prostitution: usually disagree
flag burning ban: disagree
affirmative action: neutral
tariffs: neutral
euthanasia: neutral

Economic: +4.9
Social: -1.04

So yeah, in this TL the Democratic and Republican parties aren't that much different in respect to social issues.  Obviously this America is a bit more libertarian on civil liberty issues and other issues like gay rights in 1984 than we are in 2011.
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Mechaman
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« Reply #235 on: March 09, 2011, 02:09:17 PM »

Constitution Party:

Individual Autonomy: neutral
penalize outsourcing: strongly agree
Faith based organizations: agree
Foreign aid: Strongly disagree
Education funding: strongly disagree
Heterosexual rights more important: usually agree
Free trade sucks: Strongly agree
decrease government programs: usually agree
abortion restrictions: neutral
arts funding: disagree
government health insurance: strongly disagree
censorship: agree
wealthy paying more taxes is unfair: agree
minimum wage raise: usually agree
marijuana legalization: usually disagree
forced equality: strongly agree
sacrificing freedom for security: usually disagree
government providing basic needs: disagree
death penalty: agree
excessive regulation on industry: usually agree
reducing difficulty of immigration: disagree
Union protection: usually disagree
Prostitution: strongly disagree
ban flag burning: disagree
affirmative action: strongly disagree
tariffs: strongly agree
euthanasia: strongly disagree

Average:
Economic: +3.61
Social: +4.00
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Mechaman
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« Reply #236 on: March 09, 2011, 02:36:39 PM »
« Edited: March 09, 2011, 02:42:05 PM by Mechaman »

Moderate Reform Party:

Individual autonomy: neutral
penalize outsourcing: usually disagree
faith based organizations: disagree
foreign aid: neutral
education funding: usually agree
heterosexual rights more important: disagree
free trade sucks: disagree
reduce government programs: usually agree
abortion restrictions: disagree
arts funding: neutral
government funded health insurance: usually agree
censorship: neutral
wealthy paying more taxes unfair: usually disagree
minimum wage increase: usually disagree
marijuana legalization: usually agree
forced equality: usually disagree
sacrificing freedom for security: usually disagree
government regulation on industry: usually disagree
government should provide basic needs for all people: neutral
death penalty: disagree
immigration difficulty reduction: agree
union workers protected: disagree
prostitution legalized: usually disagree
flag burning ban: disagree
Affirmative Action: strongly support
tariffs: strongly disagree
euthanasia: neutral

Average:
Economic: +0.26
Social: -4.17

So ironically the "Moderate" Reform Party is overall the most left on social issues.  This has to do with the fact that almost all MRP members hail from the northeast which is more socially left wing than other parts of the nation.
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Mechaman
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« Reply #237 on: March 09, 2011, 03:04:14 PM »

Lawrence Watson's (D-PA) score:

Individual autonomy: strongly agree*
Penalize outsourcing: usually agree*
faith based organizations: usually agree
foreign aid: agree
increase education funding: strongly agree*
heterosexual rights more important: strongly disagree
free trade hurts more than it helps: neutral*
reduce government programs: strongly disagree*
abortion illegal or restricted: usually disagree
arts funding: agree
government funded healthcare: strongly agree*
censorship: disagree
unfair that wealthy pay more taxes: strongly disagree*
raise the minimum wage: strongly agree*
marijuana legalization: usually agree
forced equality: strongly disagree: *
sacrificing freedom for security: disagree
government overburdening industry: strongly disagree*
government should provide basic needs: usually agree
death penalty: strongly disagree*
reduce difficulty of immigration: usually disagree
union workers should be protected: strongly agree*
prostitution: neutral
flag burn ban: disagree
Affirmative Action: strongly support*
Tariffs: neutral*
euthanasia: usually agree

Economic: -8.26
Social: -5.22

Lawrence Watson, one of the most progressive members of congress, is known for his social democratic views and being a passionate supporter of the working class people of Pennsylvania.  He won "the biggest upset" of 1980 when he beat the favored Republican candidate Arlen Specter.  His victory made him one of a few Democrats to represent Pennsylvania in the US Senate.  Unlike a lot of his partymates he remains skeptical of free trade, however economic protectionism has always been unsettling to him.  He prefers to be called a supporter of "the common man" when it regards trade issues and that he ultimately votes based on what would benefit the people of Pennsylvania rather than an ideologically charged view on trade.  At the young age of 33 in mid 1984 he is known for his vigorous opposition to the "right wing agenda" that is being enacted by President Crane and other Republicans that he says will "destroy this country's dignity".

*=critical issue
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Mechaman
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« Reply #238 on: March 09, 2011, 03:25:51 PM »

Thad O'Connor, (R-ME) representative:

individual autonomy: strongly agree*
penalize outsourcing: disagree
faith based charities: usually disagree
foreign aid (non-military): strongly disagree*
education funding: usually disagree
heterosexual rights more important: strongly disagree*
free trade sucks: disagree
reduce government programs: strongly agree*
abortion should be illegal or heavily restricted: usually agree
arts funding: disagree
government funded health insurance: usually disagree*
censorship: strongly disagree*
unfair that wealthy pay more taxes: usually agree
minimum wage should be raised: disagree
marijuana legalization: strongly agree*
forced equality: usually agree
sacrificing freedom for security: strongly disagree*
regulations on industry excessive: agree
government should provide basic needs for all people: strongly disagree*
death penalty: strongly disagree
reduce difficulty of immigration: neutral
union protection: strongly disagree*
prostitution legalization: agree
flag burning: strongly disagree*
Affirmative action: usually disagree
tariffs: disagree
euthansia: agree

Economic: +7.23
Social: -7.48

The only thing that kept O'Connor from being a -9 social score was his opposition to abortion, making him one of the most radical Republicans in congress.
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Mechaman
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« Reply #239 on: March 09, 2011, 03:38:40 PM »

Beauregard D'Israeli (R-WY):

Individual Autonomy: neutral
Penalize outsourcing: strongly agree*
faith based organizatoins: strongly disagree*
foreign (non military) aid: strongly disagree*
Educations funding: strongly disagree*
hetereosexual rights more important: strongly disagree*
free trade sucks: strongly agree*
reduce government programs: strongly agree*
abortion restrictions: strongly disagree*
arts funding: disagree
government funded health insurance: strongly disagree*
censorship: strongly disagree*
taxation unfair: strongly agree*
minimum wage increase: strongly disagree*
marijuana legalization: strongly agree*
forced equality: strongly agree*
sacrificing freedom for security: neutral
regulations on industry excessive: usually disagree
government provide basic needs: strongly disagree*
death penalty: strongly support
reduce difficulty of immigration: usually disagree*
Union protection: strongly disagree*
legalize prostitution: strongly agree*
flag burning ban: strongly disagree*
Affirmative action: strongly disagree*
tariffs: strongly agree*
Euthanasia: strongly agree*

Economic:+5.03
Social:-5.74

Note: this isn't what D'Israeli has alway believed.......
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Mechaman
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« Reply #240 on: March 09, 2011, 03:48:47 PM »

President Phil Crane (I-IL):

Individual autonomy: usually agree
penalize outsourcing: usually disagree*
faith based charities: usually agree*
foreign aid: usually disagree*
increase funding for education: usually agree
heterosexuals more rights: neutral
free trade sucks: disagree
reduce government programs: usually agree*
abortion should be restricted: usually agree
arts funding: usually disagree
government funded health insurance: neutral
censorship: neutral
unfair that wealthy pay more taxes: usually agree*
minimum wage increase: neutral
marijuana legalization: neutral
forcing equality: usually agree
sacrificing freedom for security: neutral
industry regulations excessive: usually agree*
government provides needs for all people: usually disagree*
death penalty: usually agree*
reduce difficulty of immigration: usually agree
union protection: disagree
prostitution: disagree
flag burning: disagree
affirmative action: neutral
tariffs: usually disagree*
euthanasia: usually disagree

Economic: +4.77
Social: +1.57

As you can see President Crane is more of a moderate conservative than an outright one in this timeline.
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Mechaman
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« Reply #241 on: March 09, 2011, 04:15:39 PM »
« Edited: March 09, 2011, 04:24:15 PM by Mechaman »

William Westman (D-NY):

Individual autonomy: strongly agree*
penalize outsourcing: strongly disagree*
faith based charities: usually agree
foreign aid: usually disagree
increase education funding: strongly agree*
hetereosexual rights more important: neutral
free trade sucks: strongly disagree*
reduce government programs: usually agree*
abortion restricted/illegal: strongly agree*
arts funding: usually agree
universal healthcare: strongly agree*
censorship: strongly disagree*
unfair tax rates: usually agree
minimum wage raise: usually disagree*
marijuana: neutral
forced equality: strongly disagree*
sacrificing freedom for security: usually disagree*
regulations on industry excessive: strongly agree*
government should provide basic needs for all people: usually disagree
death penalty: usually disagree
reduce difficulty of immigration: agree
protect union workers: usually disagree
legalize prostitution: disagree
ban flag burning: disagree
affirmative action: usually disagree
tariffs: strongly disagree*
euthanasia: disagree

Economic: +2.45
Social: -1.22

Ironically the die hard partisan Willie Westman would be closer to the modern day Republican Party than he would the Democratic Party (average pm score wise).

As you can tell the Westmans (at least the ones who have been in congress) are pretty economically conservative for Democrats despite having (at the times they were in Senate) more liberal than average social views.
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Mechaman
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« Reply #242 on: March 09, 2011, 05:56:25 PM »

Is this Ray Hutchinson a real person?

Also, feel free to do Christian Mattingly. In Americana he opposes free trade, but you can have him go either way.

Yep.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_Hutchison

And considering that this TL is always in need of anti-trade reactionaries, sure.
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Mechaman
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« Reply #243 on: March 09, 2011, 06:22:08 PM »

As a Vietnam vet (I don't know how that translates in this timeline), in Americana, Mattingly would vehemently oppose flag burning given that he saw several of his fellow soldiers go down fighting for that flag. However, I don't know how long the Vietnam War went, though he joined in 1966.

On economics, I'd make him a bit more Conservative. Despite a working class background (which influences his views on trade), he's also a businessman and doesn't like regulation or taxes.

On other issues, I'm not going to worry or bug you about given that I view them as more minimal, or right. I view Mattingly as a Reagan Democrat, however, there's no such thing in either Americana or here (at least not in the current definition).

However, you can shift his ideology any way you want in order to make it suit the story or just because. I'm not going to try to micromanage how you do things, or even manage.

This is true.
I'll keep his "neutral" position on marijuana, for the hell of it.
I believe Percy got us out of Vietnam in '62, if Mattingly fought in a war it would've been the Persian War where flag burnings were a lot more common.  However, I think that some of his libertarian influenced views would override any of his personal feelings towards banning flag burning.
Obviously I don't want a repeat of Americana, as since the average American is more libertarian socially ITTL Mattingly probably would be called a RINO by most social conservatives IOTL.
Yes I just admit I put some bias in this TL.
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Mechaman
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« Reply #244 on: March 09, 2011, 06:31:57 PM »

Oh, by the way, I stole your idea of having Spiro T Agnew as the 1972 Republican nominee. When I first read it I though "How cool would an Agnew era be?", and in "A Second Chance" I did just that. His era lasted about one and a half years. I keep meaning to credit you, now I remembered.

Oh thanks.

Yeah I read that it was pretty interesting.  It didn't cross my mind at all that I put him as a candidate earlier in this timeline.  It's like how Kalwejt told me the other week that he "ripped off" Ted Kennedy getting shot from this TL and I was all like "dude, every other TL in the universe has Ted Kennedy getting shot, no biggie".
But thanks anyway for the credit Smiley.
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Mechaman
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« Reply #245 on: March 09, 2011, 06:46:29 PM »
« Edited: March 09, 2011, 06:49:01 PM by Mechaman »

On other issues, I'm not going to worry or bug you about given that I view them as more minimal, or right. I view Mattingly as a Reagan Democrat, however, there's no such thing in either Americana or here (at least not in the current definition).

Yeah lol.
If Mattingly was a Reagan Democrat he would've been a very liberal Democrat who was a vehement supporter of government spending to fix every social ail (MacMahon 1980)!

But now that you mentioned it here' a new entry:

Reagan Democrats:

The term used to describe the last of the New Deal Democrats that lead the party from the early 1970's-1981.  These Democrats were known for being fierce defenders of economic interventionism, arguing that the "American economy has evolved to the point of needing stimulus to survive".  They take their name after former B movie actor, California US Senator, Vice President, and President Ronald Wilson Reagan, who was one of the most prominent "New New Dealers" in the 1970's.  After stockpiling record deficits and an economic downturn the worst since the Great Depression of the early 1930's the Reagan Democrats would be booted out of office in record numbers in the 1980 general elections, with the Reagan Democrat backed Mondale/Harris ticket losing in a landslide.  The damage to the Democratic Party was catastrophic, with some people even predicting the "end of the Democratic Party" in the early 1980's.

A few Reagan Democrats, like Lawrence Watson, survived the Reagan Democrat massacre and would go on to lead successful careers in the US Congress and state wide seats.  Of note, Washington Governor Robert Barker, a strong supporter of Reaganomics, is running for US President for the Democratic ticket in 1984.
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Mechaman
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« Reply #246 on: March 18, 2011, 05:49:33 PM »
« Edited: March 22, 2011, 01:01:45 AM by Winnedago »

Accomplishments of the Crane Administration (from January 1981-May 1984):

Reduced Unemployment from high of 10.8% in February 12th, 1981 to 7.4% on May 18th, 1984
Brought back 90,000 US troops from oversea bases
Issued an official government reparation program for the hundreds of thousands of Asian Americans forced into concentration camps on the West Coast during World War II
Signed the Health Care Fiscal Watch Act that established the National Healthcare Budget Office to monitor waste and fraud in the US Public Healthcare System.
Stronger US Dollar.
Renewed nuclear arms buildup, "just in case".
Resisted calls to increase government welfare spending in the middle of the "Great Depression of 1979-1982" and called for reductions in government spending in Social Security and some reductions (but not a lot) military to reduce deficit.
Raised the tax on gasoline to help pay off deficit.
First non-Democratic President to have over 50% approval ratings amongst northern Irish Catholics.
First non-Democratic President to have over 60% approval rating amongst Italian Catholics.
Popular amongst African Americans, having a higher approval rating (45%) than disapproval (38%).
Historians have said of President Crane: "he is the best hope for conservatives in this era."
Second American President to publicly call abortion "murder" (first President was Democratic President Robert Francis Kennedy of New York)
The Fong Supreme Court rules in December of 1981 that Corporations aren't equal to individuals in expression of free speech and thus laws that restrict corporate influence in elections are legal to enforce.
Civil Rights Hero and former Georgia Republican Governor Martin Luther King Jr. is appointed to the US Supreme Court to replace retiring Justice Alfred Emmanuel Smith Jr. of New York.  After Shirley Chisholm (the first African American Associate Justice, and the second female Associate Justice after Sarah Jane Connor of California) he would be the second African American to become a Supreme Court Justice.
The federal decriminalization of marijuana (advocated by libertarian leaning politicians from across the political spectrum from Scott Westman of Montana (Democratic) to Thad O'Connor of Maine (Republican) is signed by President Phil Crane.  Marijuana, however, is still considered a dangerous substance by the FDA and is still illegal in 47 states.
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Mechaman
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« Reply #247 on: March 18, 2011, 06:59:02 PM »
« Edited: March 18, 2011, 08:09:04 PM by Winnedago »

You made Crane a Libertarian hero, not a Conservative one! (although he is Pro-Life) I'm not angry or anything, but it seems that that's what you did.

Also, glad it's back.

I think the description of "Old Guard Republican" would be a more apt description of Philip Crane.  He doesn't really like the label "libertarian" as he associates it with radicalism.  However, in some cases namely marijuana decriminalization, he leans libertarian because he views the Drug War as a drain on the economy, government dollars, and leads to overcrowding of American prisons.  On most social issues he is a federalist, believing that those issues should be best left up to the state.
With a sky high deficit Crane sees cutting back military bases and operations overseas as well as a cut in the US military budget (which became bloated after various US military operations in India during the Indian Civil War that lasted from 1967-1979) as some of the biggest steps to make to balance the budget.  He is a defense advocate unless it's peace time and such spending threatens the US Treasury.  The Reagan Administration brought the US Public Debt to $352 Billion (a huge debt considering the US is still on the Gold Standard) which the Crane Administration has managed to lower down to $158 Billion.

I know this is probably unrealistic, but I wanted to paint a pretty different TL in regards to some issues.  Namely that in terms of dollar strength this TL at the worst has yet to see a weaker dollar than the 1960 dollar IRL.
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Mechaman
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« Reply #248 on: March 18, 2011, 09:13:19 PM »

Alright.

After consulting with some dudes I have reached the conclusion that some of the stuff about Crane is a bit unrealistic.  I've given him a new retooling to make him more realistic.
That is all.
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Mechaman
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« Reply #249 on: March 18, 2011, 09:53:00 PM »
« Edited: March 18, 2011, 09:56:46 PM by Winnedago »

What became of the careers of the Goldwaters, Spiro T Agnew, Jim Rhodes, Richard Nixon, and Robert Finch?

Barry Goldwater has been the senior US Senator from Arizona since 1957 when he was elected to the class 3 group of US Senators.  Barry Goldwater Jr. is currently a partner of a law firm based out of Bakersfield dealing with personal injury cases.

Spiro T. Agnew, the former governor of Maryland and former GOP Presidential nominee in 1972 against RFK has been out of prison for five years after he was arrested for corruption charges after the 1972 election.  He is currently in retirement living with his wife Judy Agnew in the small town of Berlin, Maryland.

Jim Rhodes, former governor of Ohio and former GOP Vice Presidential nominee in 1972 is currently the US Secretary of Commerce in the Crane Administration.

Richard Nixon, the former US Speaker of the House during the 1960's who was infamously indicted for illegal wiretapping of political opponents ended up in prison for a period of 5 years and barred from public service for ten more years.  He was let out in two years (was put in prison on July 2nd, 1969, let out of prison on August 9th, 1971) and by 1981 (when he would be eligible to run for office once more) he would be 68 years old, which he considered "too old" to make a political comeback.  So in his post political career he has made a name for himself as an alternate timeline novelist.  His last book entitled "For the Like of Ike" revolved around an alternate universe where former Supreme Allied Commander Dwight Eisenhower decides to run for President on the Republican ticket in 1952 and as Vice President he chooses Richard Nixon.  He describes Eisenhower as a "dynamic conservative" who believed in letting the free market resolves itself in domestic affairs, fixing the US deficit before lowering taxes, and having an active hand in foreign affairs.  At the end of the novel he describes the President's right hand man, Tricky Dick, losing tragically to an alternate timeline John Fitzgerald Kennedy of Massachusetts who was a bit healthier than he was in Nixon's universe.  Nixon is currently writing the sequel to that one entitled "1,000 Days of Camelot" that will be based around the fictional presidency of the US Senator turned President John F. Kennedy and his family.  His works frequently get bashed by the press for "being egocentric (considering he is in a few of them)" and "completely and utterly unrealistic and simply not possible".  The latter of the two criticism has to do with Nixon's assertion that if Truman had attacked the Republican Congress in 1948 instead of attacking Thomas Dewey and thus forcing Dewey into taking a detailed approach to campaigning instead of continuing to make vague policy statements Truman would've won re-election and thus history would've been significantly different.  A huge criticism often evoked by liberal authors has more to do with Nixon's assertion that a Korean War with Truman would've been unwinnable and would be passed onto Eisenhower who would manage to get the US out within a matter of months.  In this universe (the TL) the US intervenes in the war and wins it in a matter of months.  Scholars also question Nixon's assertion that despite Kefauver overwhelmingly winning the primaries in 1952 the Democratic Party would shaft him and go with the uncharismatic intellectual "egghead" Adlai Stevenson.

Robert Finch becomes the 33rd Governor of California and presides over a period of relative prosperity from 1971-1979 (when Democrat Roger Ebert wins the gubernatorial election to succeed him).  Right now as of this writing he is the US Secretary of State.
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