Italy 2013: The official thread

[Niemeyerite]

So, Bersani for PM!!!
I'd have probably voted for Renzi if I were Italian... But I like Bersani, too. He's a statesman, a serious politician, and a honest politician (something Italy really needs).

[Niemeyerite]

I'm so sorry, Italy:

http://www.corriere.it/politica/12_dicembre_08/monti-quirinale-fini-dinosauro-berlusconi_62fea7d2-4122-11e2-b1cb-f72c456506f7.shtml

[Niemeyerite]

Not that you care about this, but anyways: I'm supporting Bersani and the PD (would be a SeL voter until today, but I think Bersani will make a good PM).

About Monti... poor guy, he's too smart and too boring to take part in a campaign. I hope we had someone like Monti in Spain, instead of Rajoy. But he's not a centrist. He's clearly a conservative, a sane conservative (not like Berlusconi or our PP politicians).

[Niemeyerite]

I know a vote for SEL is a vote for Bersani, but I'm afraid he'll get less than 30%, and he needs a strong mandate in order not to call for elections in 2 or 3 years.
And it's also because if PD doesn't win big this time, it'll have effects here in Spain, too, with socialdemocracy being replaced by parties like IU in Spain, BE in Portugal... So, even if my favourite pol is Vendola, Bersani gets a B-, and I can vote for a B- Other thing that I hate is populism, and Bersani doesn't seem to be a populist (more in the Gordon Brown mold).

[Niemeyerite]

You really think deciding between SEL and PD would affect his mandate? Italians, correct me if I'm wrong but I assume it's the size of the left coalition's win that matters for a mandate, not just PD's showing. Bersani will have other issues to worry about given the times the country is living in and pointing to PD's showing isn't going to matter all that much. And whether SEL gets 5% or 10%, they're still going to be able to hold Bersani hostage if they want during the government.

Yes, it'd affect his mandate (IMO) because SEL would have more power in his Government, so Bersani would be a "slave" of ecologism like Artur Mas in Catalonia has became the "slave" of leftist independentists. If PD has a good election night and SEL a not-so-good one, Bersani would have an easier time to govern, don't you think? He'd be able to execute his platform, with some concessions to SEL, but not becoming their slave

[Niemeyerite]

Nobody uses these abbreviations in Italy to be honest...it would be better just to write the name of the candidate PM for each coalition.

Or Left/Right/Monti.

Or Left/Right/Monti/Clowns/Far Left

Better:

Centrist clowns/clowny clowns/conservative clowns/The Clown/deluded clowns

[Niemeyerite]

OMG, can Silvio actually win this? No, please!

[Niemeyerite]

I viciously hate Silvio Berlusconi.

[Niemeyerite]

I am on Panic Mode now. Italy, Italy, Italy... I love you, but I won't come back there until you forget Berlusconi/until he dies.

[Niemeyerite]

Al uruguayo:

Ojalá tuvieramos un Presidente como José Mujica... Pero no lo tenemos // I hope we had a President like José Mujica, but we don't.

Me aterra la corrupción en España, me pone de los nervios, y no sé si será peor o mejor que la italiana (creo que no está tan extendida) pero eso me da igual. Como español que soy, hago lo que puedo para evitar que las cosas sigan así: voy a la sede del PP a protestar, me quejo en twitter, voy a manifestaciones...
Como sabrás no vivo en Italia, no puedo hacer lo mismo que aquí, así que mi mejor y única forma de protestar es no volver hasta que se olviden del payaso senil y cuasi-mafioso que es Berlusconi.

I'm terrified because of the corruption in Spain, it makes me anxious, and I don't even know if it's worse here than in Italy (I think it's not that spreaded out here) but it does't matter.
As the Spaniard I am, I do what I can to prevent things continue like this: I go to PP headquarters to protest, I complain about it on twitter, I go to every demonstration I can...
As you may know, I don't live in Italy, I can't do the same I do here, so my best and only way of protesting is not going there until they reject that senile and almost-mafioso clown that Berlusconi is.

[Niemeyerite]

I haven't read Peeperkorn's post, but he tends to be very, very offensive. I doubt it's only because he praised Berlusconi.

[Niemeyerite]

I hate your sig, Peepkorn: where are Álvarez-Cascos and Bárcenas?

[Niemeyerite]

I'm going to Italy next weekend to campaign for Bersani in Lombardia and Lazio.

[Niemeyerite]

At what time do polls close tomorrow?

My prediction:

IBC 34.5%
Berlusconi 27%
M5S 22.5%
Monti 9%
Ingroia 5%
Others 2%

Turnout 72%

[Niemeyerite]

Thanks, Andrea and Phil.

[Niemeyerite]

I wanted to support Renzi, but I can't. He's such a populist. Bersani, again, gets my support. Ugh.

[Niemeyerite]

For someone who's so neutral and detached, you're just so eager to point out anything that in any way would favor Berlusconi in some way.

Anyone who isn't constantly whining about Berlusconi is a lackey in the eyes of his haters. You guys are as deranged as the people you rail against.

Anyway, don't derail the thread because of what you perceive to be Pro Silvio commentary/news. As far as I'm concerned, anyone should be able to make a praising post without your side fussing. This is basically 59 pages of Berlusconi bashing and that's fine but the second someone is seen as a fan, everything has to stop so the haters can throw a fit. Either let all (respectful) comments stand and carry on with business as usual or stop posting any kind of promotion/attack on the political figures.

It's hilarious how when Italian politics are brought up you suddenly become a moderate hero who whines about the forum's lack of objectivity and anti-Berlusconi bias. As if Berlusconi haters and Berlusconi fanboys were just as bad and you, who (supposedly) rejects both, are the only smart, objective and balanced person. Except that's not how it works. There is one side (Berlusconi haters) which is morally and objectively right, and another (Berlusconi fans) which is a bunch of irredeemable morons. So being "neutral" means being biased.

That's right. Being anti-Berlusconi is being rational.

[Niemeyerite]

My Facebook is a buzz with prominent center-right politicians saying "NO PRODI." Looks like that's who the center-left want. What a joke.

Prodi, as a centrist to centre-right politician, is not bad, but I prefer M5S candidate (never thought I'd say that).

[Niemeyerite]

Leo Bassi can be considered more serious than PD now.

[Niemeyerite]

Yikes!

[Niemeyerite]

I'll stick with PD... if they nominate Renzi or someone new. Otherwise not endorsing anyone SEL.

Never thought I'd say that. But no way I'll support the clown.

[Niemeyerite]

Well, if you're Alemanno, you can at least be thankful your situation isn't as bad as the Mayor of Viterbo. Without a strong Indepdent running, I assume Monti's party or some local fringe party did very well. Guess most of those votes will flow the the center-right.

Both of them will likely lose the run-off, so I don't think he should be thankful...