Rabbi urges Jewish students at Columbia to leave campus

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A lot of people disagree with the rabbi and say Columbia is not dangerous for Jewish students.

https://twitter.com/Nakhthor/status/1782141891049398487?t=D7acMu9Z4pim7ReGSw2etA...

Also this guy hits the nail on the head. A lot of the "antisemitic" protesters are Jewish and this is, as usual, being ignored.

https://twitter.com/PeterBeinart/status/1782204274979619184?t=Sc42cSRAmEonNEBMrm...

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Anti-semitism is absolutely unacceptable and there should be zero tolerance for it, anywhere. But there are precious few examples given in this rather long article. In any case, the pro-Palestine movement needs to carefully police itself here while not giving up protest, and also realize that pro-Israel factions may try to weaponize accusations against them.

Agreed, but no matter how much pro Palestine folks tone police themselves and no matter how PC the rhetoric, people like Ray will still claim another pogrom is imminent

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Horus, did you read the series of tweets in the first one you quoted, not just the first tweet? They didn’t say Columbia wasn’t unsafe, they made this point that Columbia students aren’t the ones making other Columbia students feel threatened.

Well then, if the supposed Jew hating hordes weren't even students, but instead just a few bad faith actors from off campus, sounds like those awful Marxist colleges aren't indoctrinating kids to be evil, vicious antisemites on par with the trash we saw in Charlottesville awhile ago. Good!

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This particularly nasty character, who has been working day in and day out to make life utter hell for pro Palestine students, had his badge deactivated and is throwing a fit lol.

https://twitter.com/luketress/status/1782407863282926014?t=Pmu1zeIvSwTbx8O6ORqk4...

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https://twitter.com/jvplive/status/1782508536238399943

I'm not sure I'd go this far either. One professor in particular (Davidai) is trying his damnedest to bring about Kent State 2.0, but administration, while far from perfect has a been given a nasty balancing act. There are a lot of "words are violence" types on both sides of this matter.

Nate Silver was on point here -

https://twitter.com/NateSilver538/status/1782113251846709629?t=ZcvNkZ_q3ZNcEb2vy...

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Also, I think the crowd's reaction (or lack thereof) in this clip captures the feelings of 99% of people.

https://twitter.com/hayxtt/status/1782492141492580655?t=-XhdKCmmJKKqH014aa1ttw&a...

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Yeah it’s kinda obviously a big yikes to be labeling people as Zionists just for wearing a Star of David

How are protestors supposed to know whether the person is wearing it purely as a religious symbol or whether its because they are supporting Israel?

The mobs should be leaving Jewish students alone or be rousted like the hate criminals they are.

The Jewish students also have the right to counter protest so why don't they use it and fight back instead of living in fear? One cannot silence the speech of someone they disagree with but they can amplify their own.

1. This is basically creating a situation where majorities can violently intimidate minorities

2. The only way a minority can fight back if outnumbered is by being better armed. Which is what they are doing. They are calling in political/alumni/donor air support.

If you argue that they should replace financial/legal/political weapons with AR-15s, well that's how you end up with so many of the world's conflicts. And as Jewish students can't do it alone, their only option would be to ally with far-right militia groups and you REALLY wouldn't want those folks hanging around campuses armed to the teeth.

No I didn't mean physically fight back sorry. Obviously there shouldn't be any bloodshed over this. I meant it as in staging larger protests, sticking together in groups, marching together, with their heads held up high, etc.  Problem is they look like cowards while the pro-Gaza people are viewed as more brave sticking their neck out there for what they view is right, regardless of the actual situation. People need to stand up for themselves, in times of bullying.

That would require them to defend their views, be open to criticism and maybe hear some mean words. We can't have any hurt feelings now, can we? Much easier to just run away.

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This has been my experience as well. Also the same for two of my uncles.

https://twitter.com/mynameisjro/status/1782753420736331916?t=grO3eRr1lZ6O8_nOyZC...

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https://twitter.com/Kjell_Anderson/status/1782957055587873248?t=vOq4X7EJstdMQ_eq...

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I stan Shai Davidai. Kapos and asajews deserve all the withering criticism they're getting.

I support his cause but he personally seems dislikable. Would you really go so far as to say you like him?

Yeah, not gonna lie that he's annoying and doesn't seem to get how the first amendment works. I'm still gonna cheer him on for calling these people what they are. I'm tired of these fringe lunatics being propped up as tokens by those who seek our destruction.

Who is "our"?

And blue avs would pitch a fit if someone called Clarence Thomas or Byron Donalds a token. Rightfully so! That's scummy as hell. No different here, you have to fall back on insults because your case is weak.

[Horus]

I stan Shai Davidai. Kapos and asajews deserve all the withering criticism they're getting.

I support his cause but he personally seems dislikable. Would you really go so far as to say you like him?

Yeah, not gonna lie that he's annoying and doesn't seem to get how the first amendment works. I'm still gonna cheer him on for calling these people what they are. I'm tired of these fringe lunatics being propped up as tokens by those who seek our destruction.

Who is "our"?

And blue avs would pitch a fit if someone called Clarence Thomas or Byron Donalds a token. Rightfully so! That's scummy as hell. No different here, you have to fall back on insults because your case is weak.

If they said it in those words, yes, but observing that Clarence Thomas seems weirdly hostile to the political and economic interests of his traditionally disfavored racial/ethnic group is not novel or unusual on this forum at all.

Do you think the Jewish student protesters are hurting "normie" American Jews?

Also, I would say Jewish people have not really ever been disfavored in the New World, but especially not in America, which has been great to us. So perhaps it wasn't the best example for me to use either.

[Horus]

I stan Shai Davidai. Kapos and asajews deserve all the withering criticism they're getting.

I support his cause but he personally seems dislikable. Would you really go so far as to say you like him?

Yeah, not gonna lie that he's annoying and doesn't seem to get how the first amendment works. I'm still gonna cheer him on for calling these people what they are. I'm tired of these fringe lunatics being propped up as tokens by those who seek our destruction.

Who is "our"?

And blue avs would pitch a fit if someone called Clarence Thomas or Byron Donalds a token. Rightfully so! That's scummy as hell. No different here, you have to fall back on insults because your case is weak.

If they said it in those words, yes, but observing that Clarence Thomas seems weirdly hostile to the political and economic interests of his traditionally disfavored racial/ethnic group is not novel or unusual on this forum at all.

Do you think the Jewish student protesters are hurting "normie" American Jews?

Also, I would say Jewish people have not really ever been disfavored in the New World, but especially not in America, which has been great to us. So perhaps it wasn't the best example for me to use either.

1. Yes, absolutely.

2. Re: The second paragraph: Imagine actually believing this

Jewish people have thrived in America for centuries. I genuinely don't know how you could think otherwise. Especially if we are comparing the Jewish American experience to the Black American experience. I think the latter has a history that is just slightly short of infinitely more traumatic.

[Horus]

I stan Shai Davidai. Kapos and asajews deserve all the withering criticism they're getting.

I support his cause but he personally seems dislikable. Would you really go so far as to say you like him?

Yeah, not gonna lie that he's annoying and doesn't seem to get how the first amendment works. I'm still gonna cheer him on for calling these people what they are. I'm tired of these fringe lunatics being propped up as tokens by those who seek our destruction.

Who is "our"?

And blue avs would pitch a fit if someone called Clarence Thomas or Byron Donalds a token. Rightfully so! That's scummy as hell. No different here, you have to fall back on insults because your case is weak.

If they said it in those words, yes, but observing that Clarence Thomas seems weirdly hostile to the political and economic interests of his traditionally disfavored racial/ethnic group is not novel or unusual on this forum at all.

Do you think the Jewish student protesters are hurting "normie" American Jews?

Also, I would say Jewish people have not really ever been disfavored in the New World, but especially not in America, which has been great to us. So perhaps it wasn't the best example for me to use either.

1. Yes, absolutely.

2. Re: The second paragraph: Imagine actually believing this

Jewish people have thrived in America for centuries. I genuinely don't know how you could think otherwise. Especially if we are comparing the Jewish American experience to the Black American experience. I think the latter has a history that is just slightly short of infinitely more traumatic.

Why compare it to anti-black racism like it's a competition?

Because that was the original comparison that Nathan and I were both talking about. It didn't come out of thin air. I object to the idea that Jewish people in America are traditionally disfavored. Most of us have done pretty well, and live comfortably.

[Horus]

I stan Shai Davidai. Kapos and asajews deserve all the withering criticism they're getting.

I support his cause but he personally seems dislikable. Would you really go so far as to say you like him?

Yeah, not gonna lie that he's annoying and doesn't seem to get how the first amendment works. I'm still gonna cheer him on for calling these people what they are. I'm tired of these fringe lunatics being propped up as tokens by those who seek our destruction.

Who is "our"?

And blue avs would pitch a fit if someone called Clarence Thomas or Byron Donalds a token. Rightfully so! That's scummy as hell. No different here, you have to fall back on insults because your case is weak.

If they said it in those words, yes, but observing that Clarence Thomas seems weirdly hostile to the political and economic interests of his traditionally disfavored racial/ethnic group is not novel or unusual on this forum at all.

Do you think the Jewish student protesters are hurting "normie" American Jews?

Also, I would say Jewish people have not really ever been disfavored in the New World, but especially not in America, which has been great to us. So perhaps it wasn't the best example for me to use either.

1. Yes, absolutely.

2. Re: The second paragraph: Imagine actually believing this

Jewish people have thrived in America for centuries. I genuinely don't know how you could think otherwise. Especially if we are comparing the Jewish American experience to the Black American experience. I think the latter has a history that is just slightly short of infinitely more traumatic.

Why compare it to anti-black racism like it's a competition?

Because that was the original comparison that Nathan and I were both talking about. It didn't come out of thin air. I object to the idea that Jewish people in America are traditionally disfavored. Most of us have done pretty well, and live comfortably.

So have we – Chinese-Americans – all things considered. But anyone denying the immense levels of historical discrimination against my ethnicity, or ignoring the anti-Asian sentiment of recent years aimed principally at my ethnicity, would look pretty silly. There's nothing mutually exclusive about "thriving" and being discriminated against.

I don't think Jewish Americans have historically faced anywhere near the level of discrimination that Chinese Americans have either *shrugs*

[Horus]

So is your position that there is some amount of historical discrimination that does not rise to the level of "disfavored"? Because look at these other Jews who were doing well? I can assure you there were examples of this in the Chinese-American community too.

By that logic, everyone other than certain rich WASPs were historically disfavored. German Americans, Irish Americans, Italians etc all faced bigotry. Seems too broad to me. Where would you draw the line? Compared to virtually any other place or time in what is inarguably a very rough history, the United States has been a Godsend to Jewish people.

[Horus]

So is your position that there is some amount of historical discrimination that does not rise to the level of "disfavored"? Because look at these other Jews who were doing well? I can assure you there were examples of this in the Chinese-American community too.

By that logic, everyone other than certain rich WASPs were historically disfavored. German Americans, Irish Americans, Italians etc all faced bigotry. Seems too broad to me. Where would you draw the line? Compared to virtually any other place or time in what is inarguably a very rough history, the United States has been a Godsend to Jewish people.

It was also a Godsend to Asians of all ethnicities, which does not erase the past or present discrimination we see, a whole bunch of which was prompted because Asian-Americans were/are perceived to thrive and enjoy material success.

So where do you draw the line? Who is historically disfavored in your eyes and who is not?

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By that logic, everyone other than certain rich WASPs were historically disfavored.

I mean...yes?

Again, seems too broad a definition to me. While both Black Americans and Irish Americans were historically disfavored, it seems dishonest to classify those historical experiences under the same umbrella.

But I'll just say this - I do not believe Jewish life is even slightly under threat in America. And the young protesters will end up making the Jewish American community stronger than ever before, as more and more of us realize we do not, and never will need Israel as some kind of insurance policy.

[Horus]

Although I think for fall, if the Jewish students feel uncomfortable attending campus the universities should offer and allow them to take online classes so they can still get their education. This will allow both sides to learn without further fear of conflict escalation.

No one should be segregated out of class. Students should be able to tolerate each other and many need to grow a thicker skin.

[Horus]

Although I think for fall, if the Jewish students feel uncomfortable attending campus the universities should offer and allow them to take online classes so they can still get their education. This will allow both sides to learn without further fear of conflict escalation.

No one should be segregated out of class. Students should be able to tolerate each other and many need to grow a thicker skin.

I agree with you but it doesn't seem like that is going to happen as they seem to be wanting the government and AIPAC to rescue them. However, I still don't think they should miss out on the education they paid for if they are too afraid to attend physically.

I'm afraid you're right, and that attitude, while it may feel like the safe route now, will probably only lead to more division down the road.

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Also, I think the crowd's reaction (or lack thereof) in this clip captures the feelings of 99% of people.

https://twitter.com/hayxtt/status/1782492141492580655?t=-XhdKCmmJKKqH014aa1ttw&a...

The person whose tweet you are posting is a Holocaust denier.

Gross, though this was my first (and will now be my last) interaction with that account.

It was a repost in itself (the guy deleted it after realizing he humiliated his wife by putting it up), I just thought her response was apt. The woman in the video walked into the middle of the Harvard encampment wearing a white shirt that said "JEW" on it in big blue letters, no one cared, and she looked stupid.

[Horus]

Although I think for fall, if the Jewish students feel uncomfortable attending campus the universities should offer and allow them to take online classes so they can still get their education. This will allow both sides to learn without further fear of conflict escalation.

No one should be segregated out of class. Students should be able to tolerate each other and many need to grow a thicker skin.

Paul Kessler didn't need thicker skin, he needed a thicker skull to protect him from the brute who murdered him.

The path being laid out for Jewish students is clear - be silent, be afraid, and you'll be allowed to live in peace until you're not. Speak up and the mob will decide your fate. Needless to say, these terms are unacceptable.

I'm sorry, I didn't realize he was a student killed during a Kantian ethics taught through Beyonce's music class in room 304

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https://twitter.com/lee_kovarsky/status/1783891737196511537?t=h5YP8E8s9ENhljBlmE...

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https://twitter.com/OsseChi/status/1783824840929222856?t=m09ko85eo2XLTHZWU-grYw&...

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I am a Zionist, and deeply disagree with these protesters.  That said, does it not bother anyone outside the protest movement that the police and government officials are being a bit heavy-handed with them?  They have been overwhelmingly peaceful so far, so there is no reason for the gestapo-approach unless intimidation is the intention.  

I think most people are bothered by it. But many politicians, especially Christian Republicans like Abbott and Kemp, value Israel more than America and will do anything it takes to protect it. Even if it means violating the rights of their own citizens.

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Joe Biden has condemned these protests

The emperor has no clothes. Pro-Israel Democrats are the last people in America to realize this.

Help me understand. I’m more supportive of Biden than ever.

The grassroots and future of the Dems are not pro Israel anymore, biden is a figurehead and dos not truly lead the party, his support is good for now due to military aid but the future of Dems and Israel is fraught

Got it. Well, he doesn’t feel like a figurehead to me and the bulk of the Dem party is behind him. When this future arrives for the Dems (and maybe it will), I’ll make up my mind then but for now the Republicans are completely unacceptable on most issues INCLUDING Israel where I prefer Biden’s approach.

Why does Israel play such a large role in your decision making process? Biden could go the Fetterman route and I'd still back him, because the GOP is just that bad. You'd really be willing to throw away stuff like universal healthcare over a candidate's position on Israel?