Mass shooting at LGBT nightclub in Orlando.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Awful I was at this club before  .    One of the reasons I hate going to clubs is they insist on disarmament.  I never feel comfortable in these situations.

And yet Christina Grimme likely would disagree with you, if she were still alive. The problem here was not too much security, but too little. Had the club been able to go into lockdown mode while the shooter was still outside far fewer would have been hurt.

Sadly, we're gonna get people from all parts of the gun politics spectrum trying to make hay out of this when the tragedy that needs to be most addressed is the thousands who die from guns one or two at a time.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Third deadliest mass shooting in American history (20), behind Virginia Tech (32) and Sandy Hook (26).

I think it'd be the fifth deadliest (non-war-related) "attack" overall (9/11, OKC, plus the two above, and then this one) if I'm not forgetting any others.

You're forgetting quite a few.

The over 100 killed in the Mountain Meadows massacre of 1857 and the 44 killed in the Bath School disaster of 1927 which remains the deadliest school incident in U.S. History both come readily to mind.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

The saddest thing about this thread is that the usual played-out arguments about Islam and about gun control and about 'mental illness' (which as we all know is the same thing as both legal insanity and a propensity to violence) would have been emotionally exhausting enough, but instead we have pages and pages of #analysis over whether or not Salafi jihadism is right-wing and at least one poster implicitly demanding that the president use a specific phrase that he would probably be likelier to use if the Republicans hadn't made a shibboleth of it, so the usual played-out arguments are looking awfully good right now in comparison. I only read the first five pages. I don't even want to know where the thread has gone since then.

Not downhill, but that's more because it never headed uphill.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Anyone find it odd that the FBI was Johnny on the spot soon as things went down?    They were wacthing this guy imo ,but probably not given the green light to scoop him up from Administration.

Due process can be a birch at times, but it it what's keeping the ATF agents you've been paranoid about from knocking down your door to take away your guns. Due process isn't about protecting criminals, it's about protecting the rights of the rest of us.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Why did I expect that Atlas would react normally to this issue?

Hope?

Why did I expect anything good to come from this thread?

Experience?

Seriously, this thread has skirted awfulness with some posters skirting closer than others, but it easily could be worse.