Trumpism

[Indy Texas]

Immigrants are most certainly taking jobs that would otherwise be done by Americans. This is not a lie. Even supporters of immigration must realize this on some level. It's not as if we didn't allow immigration, there wouldn't be super markets or restaurants.

Immigration as a whole is good for America. That doesn't mean there aren't winners and losers. And it's not just the 1% that benefits. It also helps those who work white collar jobs and can get cheaper meals at restaurants, cheaper stays at hotels, cheaper prices at supermarkets etc. Without immigrants the standard of living of most Americans would fall.

No argument with these statements. However, you fail to distinguish between legal immigrants and illegal immigrants, and it's a very important distinction. Frankly, I can't understand why people would argue against enforcing our immigration laws. If you don't like those laws, change them. If you'd prefer letting folks come into the country to work, propose a structured way of allowing that to happen. But please, please don't just ignore certain laws that are on the books because, well, "nobody" wants them to be enforced, because somebody thinks them to be a good idea and wants them to be enforced (otherwise they wouldn't be on the books).

There is only one issue there. American immigration policy is very reticent to allow any working class immigrants to come into the US, which is why you have the illegal immigrant situation you see today. It would be better if we could allow these people to come through legal channels but the problem is that it is not politically feasible to do so. People may be ok with a Chinsese businessman or an Indian IT dude coming in, but they balk when you ask if it is ok if a Mexican farmworker comes in as well. How do you fix the immigration system in a rational way that allows people to come in to do jobs no one else will do? And that way one can stop the excesses of illegal immigration while preserving the benefits. I don't see how that is politically possible though in an environment where racists like Trump are wining the nomination of one of the two established parties of America.

I don't know of any country that allows working class immigration (other than the EU's policies). It simply doesn't make sense to bring someone into a country who is, over a lifetime, going to be a using more dollars worth of public services than they will be paying in taxes.

An increasing number of Americans likely would take issue with the Indian H1B tech worker because that person might be taking their job.

Immigration is not charity - it's purely a question of, "What does this person have to offer? What can they do for us?" If they are going to be taking more out of society than they are contributing, it doesn't make sense to ask them to join the society.

[Indy Texas]

Immigrants are most certainly taking jobs that would otherwise be done by Americans. This is not a lie. Even supporters of immigration must realize this on some level. It's not as if we didn't allow immigration, there wouldn't be super markets or restaurants.

Immigration as a whole is good for America. That doesn't mean there aren't winners and losers. And it's not just the 1% that benefits. It also helps those who work white collar jobs and can get cheaper meals at restaurants, cheaper stays at hotels, cheaper prices at supermarkets etc. Without immigrants the standard of living of most Americans would fall.

No argument with these statements. However, you fail to distinguish between legal immigrants and illegal immigrants, and it's a very important distinction. Frankly, I can't understand why people would argue against enforcing our immigration laws. If you don't like those laws, change them. If you'd prefer letting folks come into the country to work, propose a structured way of allowing that to happen. But please, please don't just ignore certain laws that are on the books because, well, "nobody" wants them to be enforced, because somebody thinks them to be a good idea and wants them to be enforced (otherwise they wouldn't be on the books).

There is only one issue there. American immigration policy is very reticent to allow any working class immigrants to come into the US, which is why you have the illegal immigrant situation you see today. It would be better if we could allow these people to come through legal channels but the problem is that it is not politically feasible to do so. People may be ok with a Chinsese businessman or an Indian IT dude coming in, but they balk when you ask if it is ok if a Mexican farmworker comes in as well. How do you fix the immigration system in a rational way that allows people to come in to do jobs no one else will do? And that way one can stop the excesses of illegal immigration while preserving the benefits. I don't see how that is politically possible though in an environment where racists like Trump are wining the nomination of one of the two established parties of America.

Why do you say that it is not politically feasible to create a legal channel to allow working class immigrants to come to the US? And if you're right, does that fact provide enough justification for ignoring the law? If that's what you're suggesting, I must strongly disagree. A good number of the problems we're facing appear to be a result of people wanting to ignore certain laws. You don't like the immigration services policing your city? Well, make it a "sanctuary city". Don't think much of federal drug laws pertaining to marijuana possession and distribution? If you're the President, make it the policy of your administration not to enforce those laws. Don't appreciate the criticism directed towards your presidency that's coming from specific groups? Use the Justice Department and the IRS to punish those groups.

Yes it's sad, but that's where we are...

You don't understand the Republican party or it's base if you don't understand why it won't work. They may make an exception for certain minorities they deem desirable but Mexican laborers do not make that cut. That is why immigration reform that includes a legal path for working class workers is DOA. And we need these workers in certain areas like farmwork or landscaping and other tough jobs that don't pay well. I would obviously rather have these people come in legally but like I said, that is not feasible due to the political landscape. And I am sorry, but I don't want to pay $10 for a pound of strawberries. Of course the real result would be the end of American agriculture, as we end up importing all of our food.

There are already programs to allow farmworkers temporary, seasonal residency, and have been since the 1950s. Farming is not as labor intensive as it used to be, and it will be getting less labor intensive in the coming decades. Japan has already rolled out robot farmhands to deal with the chronic labor shortage its aging, declining population has resulted in.