Candidates and Religion

[jravnsbo]

religion is an issue and ties in with a lot of issues of faith and morality.

A few quick examples-- prayer in school; abortion; displaying 10 commandments, etc etc

Shouldnt the election be on the issues rather then religion

[jravnsbo]

Amen!  well said.  No where is ther seperation of church and state int eh Const.  It was first referenced in an obscure letter by Jefferson and latched onto by the courts.

Again are you sure you are dem?  that is a very GOP position.  

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I firmly agree with the statements regarding the spread of secularism/humanism. They are trying to suppress the Religious doctrine of others and also, Could you tell me where in the Constitution does it say "Separation of Church and State?"  I argue that it doesn't even exist. What the Founding Fathers were inferring was that we were not going to be like England where there is a State Anlican Church, headed by the Monarch. That's what it meant, "no state sanctioned religion." It also did not mean that people didn't have to follow a Religion, or Anti-Religious. The Founding Fathers should have expressed themselves more clearly. However, the language of the day and lifestyles change. But GOD'S WORD shall never perish.

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[jravnsbo]

Religion is an issue!

How about how the dems have gone after AG (R-AL) Mark Pryor for being a devout Catholic in his confirmation for the 11th Circuit.

Plus religion is an issue also in the question of gay marriage for another example.

Ladies and Gentlemen...Yes Religion matters. But the Issues matter even more so. The Candidates should focus on the Issues rather then bad mouthing other candidates on their religion views
!

[jravnsbo]

yes William Pryor, my bad, thanks for correction.

Well the Violence Against Women's Act was declared unconstitutional and many parts of the Americans with disabilities act also have been found to be unconstitutional by the US SCT, so can't fault him on that.  The main criticism is that Pryor as a Catholic ( and like you , so am I) is that since Catholic teachings say and he has said in some of his speeches that abortion is an abomination , along the lines the Church has they have attacked him for it.  Even though he said he would follow the law even if he disagreed with it, as he did do in the 10 commandments case with CJ Moore.

The first amendment reads, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

To "respect" something is to hold it in a high or special regard.  Therefore, I read the first amendment as saying that Congress shall make no law which either holds down religion or places it on pedastool.

Also, jravnsbo, did you mean William Pryor?  I've not heard of a Mark Pryor from Alabama.  None the less, the groups standing against his nomination include the American Association of People with Disabilities, The Interfaith Alliance, and Log Cabin Republicans.  Bill Pryor has talked about wanting to weaken the wall between church and state which Jefferson talked about in those letters you mentioned.  Pryor believes that the Americans With Disabilities Act, the Violence Against Women Act, the Age Discrimination in Employment Act, and even Title VII of the 1964 Civil Rights Act are unconstitutional.  I'm Catholic.  I don't feel that it is Pryor's religion which is preventing his nomination.

[jravnsbo]

well he will be confirmed next session and then we can watch the Democrats squack!

[jravnsbo]

But not if Frist pushes the Nuke button and then all of them will be confirmed.

Then a confirmation will again be a MAJORITY vote and every nominee will get an up or down vote.

[jravnsbo]

the NUKE Button is a procedure being contemplated by the GOP to allow all nominees executive and judicial to get a fair up or down vote to fulfill its obligation to advise and conset.  Right now NO OPINION is being rendered ona  number of judges by the filibuster.

See each time the new senate takes its seats it must pass its rules by a simple majority vote.  Thent eh GOP could vote to move the nominations from the legislative to executive calendars and take away the filibusters fromt he nominations.  Much the same as Budget bills can not be filibustered now.

If they do that 51 votes ( or a majority- as it has always been before Democrat filibusters) would be the number of votes needed to CONFIRM OR DENY a nominee, but at least theyw ould geta  vote.  Now no vote is taken and the seat goes unfilled and some seats are int he "judicial emergency " status, meaning they NEED a judge because of the amount of casework.

[jravnsbo]

exactly!  when the nomination is filibustered it is alive, but how can you say the Senate has offered its advise and consent, when it doesn't give an opinion as it is constitutional required to do?

[jravnsbo]

Ok lets ASSUME for a minute that they are never givena  vote, is that advise and consent?

Also EVERY nominee of Clintons that made it to the floor got a vote.  One was rejected and that is fine that is the process.  Just like now, if you want to vote NO, vote no, you are offering your opinion just like with anything else.

Let me remind you that your Republicans killed many Clinton nominees by simply refusing to allow a vote, and no one accused them of trying to violate the Constitution. But to get back to your question, no one can make the presumption that the Democrats won't drop the filibuster, or some Senators will change their votes to break it. Advice and consent is still possible, just not probable.

[jravnsbo]

Of the filibustered nominees, ESTRADA being rejected was OUTRAGEOUS!  Don't forget him.  Argued 15 cases before US SCT and won about 10 of them, but he was out of touch?  But as Ted Kennedy's memo said, "Shhh he's a Hispanic"  MAn how could we have that!

Pickering is troubling because the civil rights groups in MS support him and so do  number of MS democrats.  He is just opposed by the washington special interest groups.  He had a reputation of letting a lot of first offenders have a break on their sentence if they showed progress and steps towards rehabilitation and isn't that what society wants if they are not in for life, but because this ONE case where he was lenient and the guy was charged with burning a cross he is branded a racist, even though in the 60's at the height of the civil rights battles he stood with the black leaders against the white bigots.  This was not a popular stand for a white official in those days but he did it, because it was the right thing to do.

Owens, followed the law on parental notificationa s teh texas statute reads and that has her black listed.  She is the member of the SCT of Texas and to say she is unqulaified is also a head shaker.

Justice Brown in California has written more MAjority opinions than any other justice on the Calif SCT, but she is said to be out of touch.  Odd.

Hey I think I'll start a new forum on judges, so we can let others discuss the topic of "candidates and religion"

I think the complaint about Pryor isn't that he is Catholic, that is incidental.  The complaint is about his stance on several issues.

*Under Pryor's leadership, Alabama was the only state to challenge the constitutionality of a provision of the Violence Against Women Act (United States v. Morrison).  Pryor also argued that the Supreme Court should cut back on the protections of the Age Discrimination in Employment Act, the Civil Rights Act of 1964, the Americans with Disabilities Act, the Family and Medical Leave Act, and the Clean Water Act.

*Pryor has urged Congress to consider getting rid of a key provision of the Voting Rights Act, which protects the right to vote for African-Americans.  While testifying before a Congressional Committee, Pryor urged the Committee to "consider seriously...the repeal or amendment of Section 5 of the Voting Rights Act, which [he labeled an] affront to federalism and an expansive burden that has far outlived its usefulness."

*In 2002, Pryor filed an anti-gay brief in Lawrence v. Texas on behalf of Alabama urging the Supreme Court to uphold Texas' law banning same-sex sodomy.  Pryor argued that a "constitutional right that protects `the choice of one's partner' and `whether and how to connect sexually' must logically extend to activities like prostitution, adultery, necrophilia, bestiality, possession of child pornography, and even incest and pedophilia."  Sorry, but I don't follow his logic there.

*Pryor has also defended a state judge's sponsorship of Christian prayers before jury assemblies.

Pryor's positions border on the level of extreme and that is what the hold-up is on him.  If I had to accept one of the big 3 nominees though I would take him.  Pickering leaves a special bad taste in my mouth and I don't know how anyone, in good conscience, could approve Owens.