Hitler dies in 1938...how is he remembered/what changes?

[Cory]

Goering becomes Chancellor and is widely seen as legitimate by the Germany people and Hitler is elevated as a hero of the nation who put Germany on the "right track". Hitler's state funeral is a massive propaganda event for the nation and solidifies the people behind the Nazis.

Goering probably still pushes ahead with the claims on the Sudetenland and gets what he wants but probably doesn't take the rest of Czechoslovakia in 1939. However the Czechs will basically be reduced to a client state and possibly forced to make concessions to Hungary and Poland.

Goering would be much more realpolitik and won't have the political capital Hitler had so I can see a possible anti-Soviet "defensive" alliance with Poland in 1939 in exchange for Danzing and a extra-territorial railroad corridor to East Prussia. Keep in mind that up until Hitler began making demands on Poland they always viewed the Soviets as their main national security threat. This alliance system can be expanded to include Hungary and Romania. The Baltic States may have their independence guaranteed by Germany. The Soviets don't invade Finland.

WWII as we know it in Europe probably doesn't happen. Goering and his Ministers probably begin scaling down the military and reproaching the West for trade and such with their security secured with their alliance system in Eastern Europe and with Italy.

Point of Order: In this case Hitler will be remembered much more fondly then Stalin in Russia. There is no comparison. I don't know why people think that Hitler would be considered as bad as Stalin in this timeline. If Hitler dies in 1938 he will be a saint in comparison.

[Cory]

It's doubtful that the Nazis would have stopped with the Sudetenland. The hyperbolic description of Bohemia and Moravia as a dagger embedded in the bowels of Germany would still be made, and taking full control of that dagger would certainly be done.

This is an assumption, although my idea is also an assumption. I say Goering was much more realpolitik and economically minded then Hitler and would see the value in stopping there and reproaching with the West to prevent a total economic collapse.

Even if the Nazis had been content with just the Sudetenland, it's doubtful that Poland would agree to surrender their rights in Danzig or allow an corridor separating Pomerania from the rest of Poland.

Even in exchange for Germany guaranteeing their independence and forming a defensive alliance against the Soviets? The UK and France have literally nothing to offer in regard to Poland's security. The Poles are well aware of this. Also it's possible Goering doesn't bother to lay claim on Danzig or the corridor anyways. Danzig is of very limited value anyways and the Poles can likely be convinced to agree to the extra-territorial rail corridor.

The reason Poland didn't worry about Germany until a couple years before the war is that the German military was a pathetic force until Hitler began rearmament.

Times have changed and the Poles know this. They either need to side with Germany or the Soviets, and Germany is the only serious option of these two.

Had Poland stood with Czechslovakia in 1938, it's likely they would have defeated Germany had the Nazis made good their threat of invasion, even without Franco-British assistance.

That's all fine and good, except the Poles were too busy collaborating with Germany to dismember Czechoslovakia to begin with. A fact that is often forgotten.

Avoiding World War II as we know it requires the Nazis to take actions it is implausible they would take.  They were trapped by their ideology.  Only if an internal struggle prevents them from going any further after the Anschluss is it avoided, but even then that most likely only delays until 1940 the outbreak of war.

It's not that simple. Goering is much, much less radical then Hitler/Himmler/Gobbles. Goering's political base will be the military and industrialists, not the SS or the Nazi Party. He will be concerned first and foremost with his personal power and maintaining the German State.

[Cory]

The question is, would Goering manage to hold power. He was a drug addict, and in periods of addiction he was insufficiently cut-throat and active.

IIRC he wasn't too bad off until later in the war after he lost credibility in the Battle of Britain.

It is also hard to see Himmler or Goebbels, or the others having the same sense of loyalty to Goering as they had to Hitler. There would have been an inevitable period of "collective leadership" - and it is not clear who would emerge as the leader by, say, 1941. And, until that would be resolved, hard to see a major war.

The thing is in 1938 the SS is a shadow of what it was in 1943/44, or even 1941. Their power is very limited and massively eclipsed by the Army. In 1938 it is not within the capacity of the SS to seize power for the hardliners. Also as for Gobbles although he was a key part of the regime he didn't really wield too much personal power or influence IIRC. He's more of a card then a player if you will.

[Cory]

No, mutatis mutandis, personalities are irrelevant.  The Nazis would have had to go to war eventually.

Patently false.

[Cory]

President Ludwig Beck, after a Military Coup in 1939.

I doubt it. What's the motive for the military to illegally overthrow the Nazi government under Goering, which in this timeline is very popular with the German people? Especially when Goering is the type of person they can very much get along and work with.