Adoption is an Alternative Act (Law'd)

[Lumine]

This is a bit of an effort to address the abortion issue without going through the usual route and the usual debate to the death. When I was Midwest Governor Cris proposed something very similar before the Althing (it passed, and Cris has to be given all the credit for the idea), and I found it fascinating enough to try to see how this would work on the federal level. I considered using the German system of "baby-hatches" for a time, but since I wasn't fully convinced of the idea I decided to go with this version and put some emphasis on protecting the right of the adopted child to learn about his origin.

I firmly support the first two provisions of this bill; however, I think that, in the case of the third provision, there should be an option for the mother to have the data destroyed, or, at the very least, made unobtainable, as a kind of opt-out system. Just a thought there.

That's an interesting idea, but I do feel one of the most important parts of this bill is precisely allowing the child to obtain the data at some point (I personally wouldn't want to deny him that right). But I am genuinely curious, why do you think the mother should have that option?

[Lumine]

This is a bit of an effort to address the abortion issue without going through the usual route and the usual debate to the death. When I was Midwest Governor Cris proposed something very similar before the Althing (it passed, and Cris has to be given all the credit for the idea), and I found it fascinating enough to try to see how this would work on the federal level. I considered using the German system of "baby-hatches" for a time, but since I wasn't fully convinced of the idea I decided to go with this version and put some emphasis on protecting the right of the adopted child to learn about his origin.

I firmly support the first two provisions of this bill; however, I think that, in the case of the third provision, there should be an option for the mother to have the data destroyed, or, at the very least, made unobtainable, as a kind of opt-out system. Just a thought there.

That's an interesting idea, but I do feel one of the most important parts of this bill is precisely allowing the child to obtain the data at some point (I personally wouldn't want to deny him that right). But I am genuinely curious, why do you think the mother should have that option?

Well, basically, on the one hand, such a situation (the child obtaining the data and proceeding to track down the mother) could be a tad, how shall I put this... awkward. Indeed, one of my very good friends, who was adopted, recently did that, and it proved a bit of a fiasco, the whole meeting up thing. Not only that, but it can also be awkward for the adopting family too (as it was in the above case). Personally, I think that there'll be plenty of mothers who want to move on from whatever had led them to that particular pass in the first place, and the possibility of the child turning up 18 years later, when you might have settled down and started a brand new life, has the potential to be disruptive and possibly painful. I'd have it as an opt out system, but I think the option should be there regardless.

That I can understand, and I am tempted to name the amendment friendly (I will take a few hours before formally naming it one way or the other), but I guess I am still a bit concerned about denying the child the right to know about his origins regardless of how painful it could be. My doubt here is, why should be judge in favor of the mother instead of the child? Wouldn't it be frustrating for him/her not to have a chance to know?

[Lumine]

Well, I think I will agree with Cassius and Spiral here, the amendment is friendly.

just so people are aware, this also exists:

https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Infant_Abandonment_Act_%28federal%29

That's curious, I couldn't find that one during my research. I might as well turn this into an amendment for the Infant Abandonment Act once the current amendment passes...

When I was in the Althing, one question was asked of this kind of bill but not answered: how much is it going to cost hospitals to take care of all these babies for four weeks?

Oh, yes, I remember that, sadly the GM was not available for such request. I wonder if Napoleon will be up for a cost analysis of this bill?

[Lumine]

Well, I'd like to discuss clause 5 while I ask the GM to provide some analysis of the potential cost, since we haven't set a number for the fine. I'm not very knowledgeable of the usual amounts for fines, so any suggestions about that?

[Lumine]

This wouldn't cost anything if the hand over centre is already covered.

Well, not technically but it still represents an expense (likely a major one), so I guess it is a legitimate concern. On the other hand we don't have a GM anymore, so... It's better to move on with other parts of this, I will offer the following amendment:

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It combines both acts and introduces a tentative fine, thoughts?

[Lumine]

I would say it's friendly.

You see, I am very concerned about the privacy issue since I don't think the child should be denied the right to know where he comes from, but the baby hatches could be a good addition in the sense that they would most likely save lives (which is one if not the main purpose of this). And I also agree with the increase in the fine, I was just giving a tentative number in the earlier amendment.

[Lumine]

Of course, Bore's amendment really does solve most of my earlier concerns. Entrusting the regional goverments with the info is a reasonable step, and allowing the info to be released if the mother dies would be perfect to me. Friendly!

[Lumine]

I think I am pretty much ready with this one, so I would like to call for a final vote if nobody else has any proposals until, say, tomorrow.

[Lumine]

Aye.