If it's okay to punch Nazis...

[Chunk Yogurt for President!]

If it's okay to punch Nazis, then was the White terror in China justified?  When the Chinese Communists took over they killed more people than Hitler.

[The Govanah Jake]

No. Of course you shouldn't punch nazis. That's violence and assault. What you should do is debate those "nazis", see where they come when, and if the argument can't go on just leave.

[Don Vito Corleone]

If it's okay to punch Nazis, then was the White terror in China justified?  When the Chinese Communists took over they killed more people than Hitler.

The only thing I could find about a White Terror in China was two incidents committed by the Center-Right Kuomintang (KMT). Did you mean something else?

[Chunk Yogurt for President!]

If it's okay to punch Nazis, then was the White terror in China justified?  When the Chinese Communists took over they killed more people than Hitler.

The only thing I could find about a White Terror in China was two incidents committed by the Center-Right Kuomintang (KMT). Did you mean something else?

That's what I'm talking about.

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

If it's okay to punch Nazis, then was the White terror in China justified?  When the Chinese Communists took over they killed more people than Hitler.

The only thing I could find about a White Terror in China was two incidents committed by the Center-Right Kuomintang (KMT). Did you mean something else?

That seems to be his point. Do the sins of the first actor allow for the sins of the second?

[Don Vito Corleone]

If it's okay to punch Nazis, then was the White terror in China justified?  When the Chinese Communists took over they killed more people than Hitler.

The only thing I could find about a White Terror in China was two incidents committed by the Center-Right Kuomintang (KMT). Did you mean something else?

That seems to be his point. Do the sins of the first actor allow for the sins of the second?

I don't think punching Nazis is OK, so no.

[Chunk Yogurt for President!]

If it's okay to punch Nazis, then was the White terror in China justified?  When the Chinese Communists took over they killed more people than Hitler.

The only thing I could find about a White Terror in China was two incidents committed by the Center-Right Kuomintang (KMT). Did you mean something else?

That seems to be his point. Do the sins of the first actor allow for the sins of the second?

I don't think punching Nazis is OK, so no.

I agree with you, this is a hypothetical.  The same people who support punching Nazis are probably the same people who think the White terror was as bad as the Cultural Revolution.

[thumb21]

No.

In addition to the moral argument that its wrong to punch people for their ideology, you also have to ask how effective is it actually? How many times has punching a Nazi actually stopped them from being a Nazi? I can give plenty of examples of Nazis changing their ways through debate and actually meeting members of minority groups and realizing they aren't the terrible people. I have yet to see a single example of a Nazi being converted by punch, all it does is feed their victim narrative.

[dead0man]

to be fair, the punchers score tons of points with other violent assholes and their cowardly defenders online.  There is value in that!

[JA]

So... punching someone is equivalent to mass murder?

[Mr. Reactionary]

So... punching someone is equivalent to mass murder?

In that both are unprovoked violence ... yes.

[JA]

So... punching someone is equivalent to mass murder?

In that both are unprovoked violence ... yes.

Except there are significant degrees of difference between physical assault and murder...

[Mr. Reactionary]

So... punching someone is equivalent to mass murder?

In that both are unprovoked violence ... yes.

Except there are significant degrees of difference between physical assault and murder...

That's why i clarified that the equivalence was that both were bad because both were unprovoked violence. I wasn't saying that on a scale of of 1 to 1000 both would have the same evilness score. But theres no real point in measuring evilness scores on a pure question of right or wrong. This is a guilt vs innocence question, not a sentencing question.

[JA]

So... punching someone is equivalent to mass murder?

In that both are unprovoked violence ... yes.

Except there are significant degrees of difference between physical assault and murder...

That's why i clarified that the equivalence was that both were bad because both were unprovoked violence. I wasn't saying that on a scale of of 1 to 1000 both would have the same evilness score. But theres no real point in measuring evilness scores on a pure question of right or wrong. This is a guilt vs innocence question, not a sentencing question.

That only raises the question of "unprovoked violence." I don't mean that in a legal sense since, obviously, the law is clear on that issue. I'm referring to it on ethical and moral grounds; a person could, theoretically, contest the "unprovoked" part of that definition since a Nazi, by definition, advocates for organized violence against innocents. If they're allowed room for growth, they could, at some point, enact organized violence against their targets and a person could argue that physical aggression against them is a preventative measure intended to decrease the chances of the violence Nazis advocate.

We all should know by this point that Fascists and Nazis aren't interested in civilized debate; they understand only power and violence, hence their intentional use of dark symbolism, mass displays of power, and inclinations towards aggression, intimidation, harassment, and terror. Debate doesn't stop them, only preventing them, by force if necessary, from obtaining power stops them. That's why some openly advocate for violence against them. Whereas you and I could hold a debate on X and Y, their method of debate is the expression of power.

But, regardless of that, the OP made an intentional comparison of punching a Nazi with mass murder. While your argument is centered on the fact that they're both unprovoked violence, regardless of degree, he did not draw such a distinction.

[Chunk Yogurt for President!]

I was under the impression that people who say punching Nazis is okay also think that killing Nazis is okay.

If I am wrong, then here is what I'll ask: Would the KMT have been justified in punching Communists instead?

[dead0man]

Jacobin's wall of text above tells me that it would be perfectly acceptable to punch commies/antifa (they aren't interested in civilized debate; they understand only power and violence, hence their intentional use of dark symbolism, mass displays of power, and inclinations towards aggression, intimidation, harassment, and terror. Debate doesn't stop them, only preventing them, by force if necessary, from obtaining power stops them).  KMT or not.  I wouldn't though 'cause I"m not a violent dummy.

[IceAgeComing]

No.

In addition to the moral argument that its wrong to punch people for their ideology, you also have to ask how effective is it actually? How many times has punching a Nazi actually stopped them from being a Nazi? I can give plenty of examples of Nazis changing their ways through debate and actually meeting members of minority groups and realizing they aren't the terrible people. I have yet to see a single example of a Nazi being converted by punch, all it does is feed their victim narrative.

compare the level of media and popular support for the BUF before the Battle of Cable Street and after