Opinion of Affirmative Action

[MasterJedi]

No, jfern, he's right.  In general, people are less likely to prefer black doctors because they're afraid they got in because of a quota, regardless of how valid these fears are.  It's a fairly serious problem, and it may even discourage blacks from entering the medical profession.

How many American doctors do you know anyways? Most of the general practice doctors I encounter these days are Indian.

They're all (well mostly) white up here.

[Ebowed]

How many American doctors do you know anyways? Most of the general practice doctors I encounter these days are Indian.

We clearly need to fix that, because having a rainbow-colored hospital is more important than having the best quality care possible.

[??????????]

How many American doctors do you know anyways? Most of the general practice doctors I encounter these days are Indian.

We clearly need to fix that, because having a rainbow-colored hospital is more important than having the best quality care possible.

No we don't, I like it fine as it is.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Some people are actually less likely to "trust" a given doctor because of said doctor's skin colour? Amazing. Really amazing.

You know in some ways I've always thought that that sort of casual racism (and that's what it is) is worse than in-yer-face racism... at least you know where you are with the latter.

[??????????]

Some people are actually less likely to "trust" a given doctor because of said doctor's skin colour? Amazing. Really amazing.

Sad isn't it? Whats the situation like across the pond?

[YRABNNRM]

No, jfern, he's right.  In general, people are less likely to prefer black doctors because they're afraid they got in because of a quota, regardless of how valid these fears are.  It's a fairly serious problem, and it may even discourage blacks from entering the medical profession.

How many American doctors do you know anyways? Most of the general practice doctors I encounter these days are Indian.

They're all (well mostly) white up here.

Same here. I've never had an Indian doctor.

[??????????]

No, jfern, he's right.  In general, people are less likely to prefer black doctors because they're afraid they got in because of a quota, regardless of how valid these fears are.  It's a fairly serious problem, and it may even discourage blacks from entering the medical profession.

How many American doctors do you know anyways? Most of the general practice doctors I encounter these days are Indian.

They're all (well mostly) white up here.

Same here. I've never had an Indian doctor.

Florida probably pays doctors higher thats what entices them to come here and the climate is probably closer to Indias? ()

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Some people are actually less likely to "trust" a given doctor because of said doctor's skin colour? Amazing. Really amazing.

Sad isn't it? Whats the situation like across the pond?

Never heard of anything like that over here.
A lot of people working in the NHS are from ethnic minorities (doctors, nurses, cleaners, the works basically). That's the case even in the very white PCT which I live in.

[dazzleman]

Affirmative action makes a lot of people not want black doctors.  A lot of good that does for racism.

If it's helping them so much, then how come only 2.5% of doctors are black?

Good point, fernie.  It's a perfect example of why affirmative action isn't really the answer to the problems many blacks face.  If they don't receive some type of decent educational opportunity in the lower grades, they'll never reach the point of even being considered for medical school, and affirmative action is therefore moot.

I think affirmative action serves as a sort of safety valve that allows society and blacks themselves to not address the fundamental problems facing black Americans.

[dazzleman]

Affirmative action makes a lot of people not want black doctors.  A lot of good that does for racism.

If it's helping them so much, then how come only 2.5% of doctors are black?

First of all, that statistic seems very exaggerated and second of all the point was that many people don't trust minority professionals because they're not sure they're actually qualified.  What exactly is your point?  Who is what helping and where did I say it was helping people?

No, the statistic is right, it's somewhere around 2.5% maybe 3%. Well, certain bigotted NJ Republican might not trust black doctors....

Of course, anybody who doesn't agree with you fully is bigoted, right?  And of course, you harbor no bigotry.  That is very clear.

[dazzleman]

Some people are actually less likely to "trust" a given doctor because of said doctor's skin colour? Amazing. Really amazing.

You know in some ways I've always thought that that sort of casual racism (and that's what it is) is worse than in-yer-face racism... at least you know where you are with the latter.

Having less trust in a doctor due to his/her skin color if you know that that skin color meant he/she had to meet lower standards than a doctor of another skin color is perfectly logical.

Thinking patterns have to be illogical in order to really be racism or prejudice.  If a thought pattern is based on well-known facts, then it really isn't racist.  It may be generalization in the name of self-interest, but it's not purely racist.

Not to hire or do business with a perfectly qualified black person because he/she is black is prejudiced and racist.  But being more fearful of a black person wearing gang colors on a dark street at night is not really racist; it is simply a logical reaction to certain well-known facts.

People who are always throwing around the term "racist" ought to learn the difference between the two scenarios.

[John Dibble]

Affirmative action is not extreme enough to amount to discrimination.  it simply favors (in most cases) fairly equal white and black students and picks the black one.  Hardly discrimnation.

So if they decided to favor white students when the two were 'fairly equal', would you still call it just 'hardly discrimination'? And be honest.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Also,

Absolutely oppose.  IT is the minorities fault that they got themselves in their predicaments, and it is their responsibility to get themselves out.  Colleges should not reject people like me, because some poor African American with a GPA 1 pt. below mine, "has to be let in."

But not all poor people "get them self in that predicament." Some might get laid off or born into poverty ect... Also who said it has to be an African American? Hispanics, Women, Native Americans, Asians are minorities. 

1st--they can pull themselves out.

That is the most ignorant thing I have ever seen.  You clearly have no idea what it's like to be caught up in a situation like many of the minorities in our country have faced, including poverty, bad neighborhoods, crime, and the cycle of ill ends perpetuated by relatives, neighbors, and friends that are prominent in the ghettos of the United States.
I recommend leaving your cozy suburb to travel to these areas to see how easy it is to "pull themselves out".

Look @ people like -Crap- I can't think of his name--the Kid's say the Darndest things and the Jello Jiggler comercial guy--well, he says that African Americans need to pull themselves out.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Affirmative action makes a lot of people not want black doctors.  A lot of good that does for racism.

If it's helping them so much, then how come only 2.5% of doctors are black?

First of all, that statistic seems very exaggerated and second of all the point was that many people don't trust minority professionals because they're not sure they're actually qualified.  What exactly is your point?  Who is what helping and where did I say it was helping people?

No, the statistic is right, it's somewhere around 2.5% maybe 3%. Well, certain bigotted NJ Republican might not trust black doctors....

I find that hard to believe.  I also still fail to see the connection between that statistic and what I said.  And if you're trying to insinuate that I have a problem with black doctors, that's just pathetic.  Of course, arguing with you, I should have kept in mind that you are incapable of arguing the issues and preventing yourself from using silly attacks like a little girl.

No, it really is that low, and because of that I think there is just plain racism going on here. If every black who wanted got to become a doctor, it'd be a hell of a lot higher than 2.5%-3.%.

But every black who wants to become a doctor doesn't try hard enough.  1/2 little kids want to be President, but is 1/2 the nation the President?  No--not even 1/2 has ever ran for political office.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

No, jfern, he's right.  In general, people are less likely to prefer black doctors because they're afraid they got in because of a quota, regardless of how valid these fears are.  It's a fairly serious problem, and it may even discourage blacks from entering the medical profession.

How many American doctors do you know anyways? Most of the general practice doctors I encounter these days are Indian.

They're all (well mostly) white up here.

Same here. I've never had an Indian doctor.

My Dr. is a Jew (race, not religion), but a lot are either Arab or Jewish--a LOT of Dr.s in Dearborn (where my Dr. is).

[??????????]

No, jfern, he's right.  In general, people are less likely to prefer black doctors because they're afraid they got in because of a quota, regardless of how valid these fears are.  It's a fairly serious problem, and it may even discourage blacks from entering the medical profession.

How many American doctors do you know anyways? Most of the general practice doctors I encounter these days are Indian.

They're all (well mostly) white up here.

Same here. I've never had an Indian doctor.

My Dr. is a Jew (race, not religion), but a lot are either Arab or Jewish--a LOT of Dr.s in Dearborn (where my Dr. is).

Jewish isn't a race.

[dazzleman]

Also,

Absolutely oppose.  IT is the minorities fault that they got themselves in their predicaments, and it is their responsibility to get themselves out.  Colleges should not reject people like me, because some poor African American with a GPA 1 pt. below mine, "has to be let in."

But not all poor people "get them self in that predicament." Some might get laid off or born into poverty ect... Also who said it has to be an African American? Hispanics, Women, Native Americans, Asians are minorities. 

1st--they can pull themselves out.

That is the most ignorant thing I have ever seen.  You clearly have no idea what it's like to be caught up in a situation like many of the minorities in our country have faced, including poverty, bad neighborhoods, crime, and the cycle of ill ends perpetuated by relatives, neighbors, and friends that are prominent in the ghettos of the United States.
I recommend leaving your cozy suburb to travel to these areas to see how easy it is to "pull themselves out".

Look @ people like -Crap- I can't think of his name--the Kid's say the Darndest things and the Jello Jiggler comercial guy--well, he says that African Americans need to pull themselves out.

It was Bill Cosby.

Look, the reality is that (a) nobody can pull himself up completely on his own.  Everybody who is successful has had help, of one type or another, whether they recognize it or not; and (b) if you don't try to help yourself, it doesn't matter how much other people try to do for you.

So in a sense, both sides of this debate are right.  No matter how bad a person's circumstances are, he/she has a chance for success with the right help, and with the right frame of mind and willingness to help himself/herself.

What is going on now with the poor, which includes many minorities, is a bad cycle.  Generally, people won't waste their time helping you if they don't think you're willing to help yourself, because the effort will be wasted, like trying to push a thread through a needle.  Unfortunately, we have encouraged many badly-off people to believe they have no role in improving their own situation, and they state flat-out that the improvement of their situation is the responsibility of others.  At the same time, they continue the behavior patterns that perpetuate poverty and the overall bad situation in which they live.  This convinces people that they're not willing to help themselves, and that any efforts expended on their behalf would be wasted, so they write them off.

It is not simply racism, as some say.  There are plenty of white people who fall within this, and general sympathy for them isn't really any greater than it is for minorities in this situation.

As far as the paucity of black doctors is concerned, it is not simple racism, but a case of a large number of black kids falling out of contention for an elite level of education early in the game.  For one thing, there is an anti-education strain of thinking deeply ingrained in contemporary black culture, and that has a huge negative impact on the schools that blacks largely attend.  This attitude affects even blacks whose parents are well off economically.  The solutions are not simple, and to blame the whole situation on simple racism is just another politically correct cop-out that will intensify the problem because if enough people accept this false explanation, the real issues will never be addressed.  That, in a nutshell, is why most liberal policy initiatives have failed so spectacularly.  But it seems that being a liberal means never having to face reality.