Lithuanian bulwark: First long-term foreign deployment of German soldiers since WWII

[quesaisje]

What's being described as an advance team has arrived to begin setting up a base for a brigade-sized force:

About two dozen soldiers arrived in Lithuania, laying the groundwork for a further 150 to join them later this year. The deployment is expected to be up to its full strength of 5,000 by the end of 2027.

“This is the first time that we have permanently stationed such a unit outside of Germany,” German Defense Minister Boris Pistorius said in Berlin at a farewell ceremony for the preliminary command of Germany’s Lithuanian brigade, according to German news agency dpa.]

[...]

The German army, the Bundeswehr, has taken part in long-term operations abroad since the 1990s. [However], this is the first permanent standalone German deployment, not on rotation as part of a multinational force.

https://apnews.com/article/lithuania-germany-troops-deployed-nato-kaliningrad-belarus-583e693c36c7a51bb798ca2016ecf493

The base will eventually host the 203rd Panzer Battalion and the 122nd Panzergrenadier Battalion. DW reports that a third multinational NATO battalion will join them eventually.

[gerritcole]

Excellent, For secure European defense and security, the Germans must remember their military traditions and rebuild/rearm and perhaps mentally move past ww2 as a block in their way a la Japan in recent years

[Storr]

A France 24 English story on the deployment:

[Middle-aged Europe]

Excellent, For secure European defense and security, the Germans must remember their military traditions and rebuild/rearm and perhaps mentally move past ww2 as a block in their way a la Japan in recent years

"German military tradition" before WWII was sh**t. This is why, among other things, WWII occurred in the first place. On their good days, the officers' corps back then was a bunch of reactionary monarchists.


02/24/22 had a tremendous societal impact around here however, similar to 09/11/01 in the U.S.


This why we had polling results like that this week (Forschungsgruppe Wahlen for ZDF Politbarometer, 02/12/24):

Western nations ought to support Ukraine militarily...
More 42% (+9)
Same 31% (-2)
Less 22% (-6)

Should Ukraine be admitted to NATO after the war?
Yes 55%
No 36%

Close links of AfD politicians to the Russian government are...
Acceptable 12%
Not acceptable 80%

More money for German military even if it requires budget cuts in other areas?
Yes 70%
No 23%

Is the military as part of NATO in good shape to defend Germany?
Yes 13%
No 79%

[gerritcole]

Excellent, For secure European defense and security, the Germans must remember their military traditions and rebuild/rearm and perhaps mentally move past ww2 as a block in their way a la Japan in recent years

"German military tradition" before WWII was sh**t. This is why, among other things, WWII occurred in the first place. On their good days, the officers' corps back then was a bunch of reactionary monarchists.

German military tradition is most definitely not sh**t; countless prominent military generals, equipment innovations, battlefield operations, etc. the officers were of course reactionary monarchists, nazis, other reprehensible idealogies, but there were many great officers. I’m making a distinction between the art of war and the political and societal causes of the war.

[Middle-aged Europe]

Excellent, For secure European defense and security, the Germans must remember their military traditions and rebuild/rearm and perhaps mentally move past ww2 as a block in their way a la Japan in recent years

"German military tradition" before WWII was sh**t. This is why, among other things, WWII occurred in the first place. On their good days, the officers' corps back then was a bunch of reactionary monarchists.

German military tradition is most definitely not sh**t; countless prominent military generals, equipment innovations, battlefield operations, etc. the officers were of course reactionary monarchists, nazis, other reprehensible idealogies, but there were many great officers. I’m making a distinction between the art of war and the political and societal causes of the war.

You'll probably have a hard time selling this around here to anyone, since "German military tradition" is still considered toxic beyond redemption for the reasons cited.

People who tend to cherish old school German military tradtion also tend to align with the AfD politically which arguably makes them Putin supporters rather than the opposite. Case in point, the retired Army colonels who were arrested back in 2022 for their participation in the Reichsbürger coup attempt.

I guess the reason why the military finds acceptance right now is because it is largely framed as being a part of a Western/NATO/EU/anti-Putin/pro-democratic defense force.


Further polling by Infratest-cimap for ARD-Deutschlandtrend seems to underline this (04/04/24):

NATO is important to secure in peace in Europe - 82% support, 10% oppose

It's in European interest to maintain a military alliance with the United States - 69% support, 19% oppose

NATO is redundant and should be dissolved - 9% support, 83% oppose

We're living safer due to the EU - 69% support, 22% oppose

There should be a common European military - 59% support, 30% oppose

[Damocles]

Keiner von uns wurde für den Krieg geboren.
Aber wir sind alle hier, um unsere Freiheit zu verteidigen.
Als Einheit vereint, durch nichts getrennt.
Um den Frieden zu wahren und Tyrannen abzuschrecken.

Die Bundeswehr

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

The Teutonic Order is claiming their ancestral lands of East Prussia.

[CumbrianLefty]

The Teutonic Order is claiming their ancestral lands of East Prussia.

Old habits die hard

[TiltsAreUnderrated]

The Teutonic Order is claiming their ancestral lands of East Prussia.

The Teutonic Order never really conquered Ltihuania, although they did better than the Brothers of the Sword, whose defeat is still commemorated in Lithuania and Latvia. I visited one of their castles  recently -  fully restored in an attempt to reclaim their history.

Lithuania ultimately converted to Chiristianity to stop the Teutonic Order’s attacks, but would declare themselves a pagan state again many decades later (before converting a second time). Immediately after their first conversion, Lithuania’s leaders declared Vilnius and Trakai to be its capital on the advice of a pagan priest. It took hundreds of years of insincere conversion for the country to truly Christianise.

The German and Jewish influences are real, though - and saddening, given the relative absence of both communities in the Baltics. I found them to be stronger in Latvia and Estonia.

[ingemann]

When I read up on modern German military history, my take was not that Germans had super good officers, but more that in the land of the blind the one eyed is king. Fundamentally the Germans simply didn’t let the worst incompetents become officers and had a half way competent officer education, which meant they had a better starting point, but as the other armies lost the worst of their idiots, they improved relatively compared to Germans and the Germans lost the edge they had from the start.

[Storr]

And now Sweden is sending troops on a foreign deployment for the first time as part of NATO. Around 600 troops, 90 combat vehicles, 122 Leopold tanks and 360 armored all-terrain vehicles will be sent to Latvia.

https://www.politico.eu/newsletter/brussels-playbook/macron-or-orban-choose-your-eu-adventure/

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/sweden-move-ahead-with-sending-troops-latvia-part-nato-forces-2024-04-25/