would george allen have beaten creigh deeds?

[WalterMitty]

yes, obviously.

[Kaine for Senate '18]

No, I don't think so.  Assuming, of course, that Creigh runs a better campaign.

[Meeker]

No, I don't think so.  Assuming, of course, that Creigh runs a better campaign.

...

So then what's your answer?

[Joe Biden 2020]

The "pre-macaca" Allen would have, the "post-macaca" Allen, not a chance.

[Kaine for Senate '18]

No, I don't think so.  Assuming, of course, that Creigh runs a better campaign.

...

So then what's your answer?

No.

[Alexander Hamilton]

Jim Gilmore would have beat Creigh Deeds

[Kaine for Senate '18]

Jim Gilmore would have beat Creigh Deeds

No, he wouldn't have.

[Alexander Hamilton]

Jim Gilmore would have beat Creigh Deeds

No, he wouldn't have.

Says Mr. "I still think Deeds will ull it out in the end."

[Lunar]

No, I don't think so.  Assuming, of course, that Creigh runs a better campaign.

...

So then what's your answer?

I guess he's assuming that Creigh wouldn't be taking gambles like going hard negative against Allen...

but fundamentally, Creigh still was too hesitant to embrace Barack Obama from the get go to have a chance at the end

[Kaine for Senate '18]

Says Mr. "I still think Deeds will pull it out in the end."

After calling Webb, Obama (twice), Warner, and Deeds in the primary correctly.  In 2008, Jim Gilmore received 33.7% of the vote in Virginia.  Gilmore barely won the GOP nomination for the Senate seat in 2008.  Deeds would have defeated Gilmore; Deeds' big problem this year was running a piss poor, entirely negative campaign.

[Landslide Lyndon]

Jim Gilmore would have beat Creigh Deeds

Jim Gilmore wouldn't defeat Mike Gravel.

[nkpatel1279]

The biggest question is would Chuck Robb have beaten Bob McDonnell? If they aired a tape of Robb getting a massage by Tai Collins and Snorting powdered Substate. or could statewide losers such as Mary Sue Terry,Don Beyer or Leslie Byrne beaten Bob McDonnell.

[Smash255]

No, Allen would have been able to do something that Deeds failed miserably at against McDonnel.  Get Democrats to to vote.

[Lunar]

No, I don't think so.  Assuming, of course, that Creigh runs a better campaign.

You admit that Creigh was a bad campaigner this time around, why, when faced with a opponent who had a gaffe that would have been more "old news" than a thesis, who *barely* lost to a moderately strong candidate (Webb) in an extremely Democratic-friendly year, would Allen lose to poor Creigh in an anti-incumbent party year?

Gilmore would have lost of course.

[Kaine for Senate '18]

I think Allen is ruined in Virginia.  He's damaged goods; more damaged than his slim margin of defeat in 2006 would indicate.  He would also turn out more Democratic voters, as there is a lot of antipathy towards him among Virginia Democrats.

[Lunar]

I think Allen is ruined in Virginia.  He's damaged goods; more damaged than his slim margin of defeat in 2006 would indicate.  He would also turn out more Democratic voters, as there is a lot of antipathy towards him among Virginia Democrats.

There was a lot of antipathy towards McDonnell among Virginia Democrats too, which is why a lot of them turned out to vote against McDonnell a couple days ago.  Of course, that "a lot" number only added up to 40% of the electorate.

[Kaine for Senate '18]

I think George Allen would motivate Democrats a lot more than McDonnell did, if he ran again.

[Rob]

Yes. This Deeds debacle should prove to Blue Dogs what happens when you run anti-Democrat Democrats for statewide office, but of course it won't.

[Kaine for Senate '18]

Yes. This Deeds debacle should prove to Blue Dogs what happens when you run anti-Democrat Democrats for statewide office, but of course it won't.

Despite the fact that Blue Dogs won in 2001, 2005, 2006, and 2008, as well as winning multiple CD's in 2008?

[JohnnyLongtorso]

Allen: Yes. Even with all the controversies he only lost in 2006 by 9,000 votes.

Gilmore: No. Gilmore's credibility is shot with voters; he lost in a landslide to Mark Warner and barely even got nominated. All his opponent would have to do is remind voters that Gilmore wrecked the state's finances during his term.

[Lunar]

Yes. This Deeds debacle should prove to Blue Dogs what happens when you run anti-Democrat Democrats for statewide office, but of course it won't.

No, that's a foolish interpretation.


However, Deeds strategy didn't make sense.  You got the Democrats at all levels of government, did he really think he could 100% localize the debate and yet get Obama voters to turn out?  A large number of Obama-approving individuals voted for both Christie and McDonnell (25% ish of their total?).

The Deeds campaign was working a strategy from a bygone Bush era when in fact it needed to embrace Obama but distance itself from some of its more controversial policies at the same time....not exactly an easy vantage point to implement into a completely different context

Deeds wasn't any more conservative than Kaine or Warner or Webb...and he was hardly an anti-Democrat Democrat, but he did subscribe to the blue dog model of politics which doesn't work in Virginia off-year elections nowadays

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

He would have clearly beat Deeds.

[Alexander Hamilton]

Ok, McDonnell beat Deeds.

Allen would not beat Deeds. Deeds would beat Deeds. He's that pathetic.