Which statement best matches you?

[Giant Saguaro]

Take your pick - which statement comes closest to fitting your views, even if you don't agree with one 100%? More than party breakdown, age breakdown would be interesting if one were to do a study, I think.

Feel free to debate/discuss.

[KEmperor]

Your dichotomy is flawed.  There are those of us who believe people are primarily motivated by self-interest, and that is it is a good thing.

[Giant Saguaro]

Your dichotomy is flawed.  There are those of us who believe people are primarily motivated by self-interest, and that is it is a good thing.

The person who gave me this probably took for granted that most people would draw the line with people taking advantage of each other, using a position to weigh in positively or negatively on another's situation, and so forth - clearly not a good thing, I think.

But your answer is another reason why age is an interesting factor, so that's fine. At some point, most believe that exclusive self interest is a good thing too.

[dazzleman]

Your dichotomy is flawed.  There are those of us who believe people are primarily motivated by self-interest, and that is it is a good thing.

^^^^^^

[Giant Saguaro]

I see. Pending more feedback, I think the best thing to do, if someone were to have this show up as, say, an essay question on a test or a discussion question, would be to ask if there is an overall flaw in the choices and, most importantly, what it is. If not, why not, for example then for those on the converse. Because to some a flaw doesn't jump out, myself included as well as the person who asked me what I thought of it, but now that it's been pointed out to me I can see how someone would see a flaw in it. Amazing. Some of us are still in the mindset that's before this larger hard Libertarian type move on economics. Me, me, me and if it feels good do it is a good thing, a good combination. Makes sense too because that would be one way to explain how we've gotten from the late '70s to now and how the '90s if it feels good do it is an extension of the '80s me, me, me. Gee, analyzing on a Saturday morning! Some don't stop.

Cool. So far, so good.

[John Dibble]

The first one comes closest to mine. You must remember this - everyone has different interests. If I take a bullet for a loved one, it's because their safety is my interes - I have an emotional investment in that person and I would rather my life not be without that person. Just an example of what doesn't look like self-interest actually being self-interest. Every last decision you make is motivated by what interests you, by what principles you hold, so therefore your decisions are made based on your self-interest.

[Flying Dog]

OPTION 1

[Gustaf]

I'm viewed by most people who know me as a cynic, but I don't like to think that way of myself...though I do think that self-interest plays a large part in society I also believe in goodness of human beings. Of cuorse, with most people here being young, most will be cynics (young people usually are, I think).

A debate on it will be quite pointless since cynics and romantics generally don't understand each other. A cynic can always make any action look cynical, it's more a question of what you choose to believe in.

[opebo]

Being self-interested in a social situation requires an enormous amount of consideration of the other fellow's interests.

[Gabu]

Option 1, but pursuing your own self-interests does not mean that you care nothing about others.  For example, it makes me happy to see other people care about happy; therefore, by pursuing my own interests, I make others happy.

Nobody will ever do something if they don't want to do it, though.

[ilikeverin]

I think we start out a-OK but are eventually corrupted into self-interest by corrupting-type things.

[John Dibble]

I think we start out a-OK but are eventually corrupted into self-interest by corrupting-type things.

A baby is extremly self-interested, caring only about it's own needs really. Self-interest starts immediately at birth.

[ilikeverin]

I think we start out a-OK but are eventually corrupted into self-interest by corrupting-type things.

A baby is extremly self-interested, caring only about it's own needs really. Self-interest starts immediately at birth.

Well, I think we start out 'good', and I consider non-self-interest to be 'good', and thus we start out a-OK and are corrupted

Flawed logic is fun

[Giant Saguaro]

Some would say needs don't corrupt us as much as many desires do. Like when ends start to justify means.

[angus]

The first.  One would hope any self-respecting individual would choose that one.  In fact, any member of any species who isn't acting out of self-preservation, dies young like a moron, doesn't pass on his genes, and therefore doesn't weaken the species.  Anyone not chosing that option deserves a Darwin Award here and now.  I'd rather you know you got one than die in some dumbass way and never know how famous you'd become posthumously.

[Citizen James]

I took 3, though as someone pointed out the ideas are not completely in conflict with one another.

The whole free enterprise system is made up of a combination of 1 and 3 - that people will come to deals of exchange which are mutually benficial - benefiting both themselves and the other party...  And that they will keep the deal.  If you made a deal with someone, someone you would never see again and would be unable to track you down, and they gave you the money up front - would you ditch them and keep the merchindise?   There are some sociopaths who would say yes, but for the most part I think it's human nature to keep our word.

There are those out there who believe that something isn't wrong if you don't get caught.   I believe that most people here, if given an opportunity to steal some money, and being virtually assured of not getting caught, would not steal the money anyway.

Or for a more emotionally charged example - rape.   Crime statistics show most rapists are never charged, arrested, or even directly reported.   According to the USDOJ] 70% of rapes are never reported.   A sociopath (someone motivated only by their own desires and wants, with no concience) would take what he wanted without a second thought.   Most of us, no matter how horny, would not even seriously consider such a barbaric course of action.   Not even if she was a hot latina socialist.

No, I don't deny that self interest plays a role in our decision making - I just think that it is one factor of many.  Aside from the occational sociopath, I do think most people are basically good, though imperfect and prone to error and misunderstanding.

Anyway, that's my take on things.

[MODU]

Option 3, but then again, I'm an optimist. 

[Erc]

The illusion is best exemplified in the TV show friend or foe.
To be a friend is to work towards your own best interest. If you are an optimist you will chose friend, if a cynical greedy selfish pessimist you will chose foe. Choosing the former is clearly the best, even though you risk being a victim. Choosing the latter is pure folly even though you could end up with all the money.
Friend Friend splits the money in half
Friend Foe or Foe Friend -- friend gets nothing foe gets all
Foe Foe nobody gets anything.
I find it interesting how all three would come up.

I've got an interesting little anecdote on this game.

In my freshman econ class, our professor used the game to demonstrate game theory.  By the usual analysis, each player's optimal strategy is to pick Foe--If you pick friend, I get twice the money with foe than with friend.  If you pick Foe, it doesn't matter which one I pick, as I'm not getting anything anyway (and if I'm particularly sadistic, I get enjoyment out of the fact that you don't get anything).

The professor ran the game eight times, four times in each session, with real money (total pot $10 or $20 each time--putting our tuition money to good use).

Out of the sixteen people who played the game, only one person ever chose Foe.  Namely, me.  And I only chose Foe on a whim at the very last moment.

So things didn't turn out the way the prof planned it--the 'irrational' result turned up fifteen times out of sixteen, much to the consternation of the prof's budget for that day.

You can draw a lot of conclusions from it--that people don't naturally have self-interest that much in mind, etc.  But really, it's because they place value on other things.  This was all done in public, in front of the 50-person lecture class.  He who chooses 'foe' would be seen as a shallow, sadistic, greedy bastard (as I was, to some extent) in front of an audience of people you were just getting to meet.  Add that to society's ingrained pressures of being 'nice' and feeling guilty over depriving your fellow contestant of $5, and it's little surprise that happened.

Up the stakes to $100, and/or make the game private, and the professor bet that a lot more people would choose 'Foe.'


So even when people don't act in a manner that seems to be their own 'self-interest,' it's usually because you aren't analyzing the situation carefully enough.


That said, I voted 2--in reality, it's 1, but it looks like 2 (or even 3) on the surface.

[Nation]

Perhaps it is possible for 1 and 3 to intertwine at some point. That's how I see my life, at least.

[Virginian87]

Well of course everything everyone does is in their own interests because it's what they want to do or feel like they should so it's just to make themselves feel better, look better, seem better, or whatever. Not ALL that everyone does, however,  is FOCUSED around them feeling, looking, or seeming better, it's just that it helps their needs while helping someone else's more.  Does that make sense?  I can clarify better if anyone cares.

Second that.  The rise of retail and service businesses today like Wal-Mart, Target, and fast food chains, as well as clothing brands and appliance manufacturers, is based almost entirely on option 1.  People want to look good, feel good, and be at a state of self-happiness as long as possible.  That means everyone will try to buy and obtain as much as possible to keep this constant state.  Option 1 is probably the choice that plays the most important role in a person's everyday life.

[Democratic Hawk]

No, I believe in the overall goodness of mankind

Dave

[Bono]

Second comes close.

[John Dibble]

Just a quote I think is relevant to the topic:

"It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker, that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own self-interest. We address ourselves, not to their humanity but to their self-love, and never talk to them of our own necessities but of their advantages." - Adam Smith