Allen wins Wisconsin straw poll.

[adam]

We consider abortion murder.  Thus not pathetic.

Learn to understand how the other side views issues.  It helps.  A lot.

Do you consider the evaporating of fetal matter to be more of a pressing issue than balancing the budget, national security, and border control? I understand how social right-wingers feel on the issue - I disagree, but I understand. The truth is that I don't care. Whether you are pro-choice or anti-choice, pro-life or pro-abortion...if you hold such a miniscule issue in higher regard to the economy and national security than you are an imbecile.

Your statement, "The truth is that I don't care,"  is clear.  You obviously don't. 

However, your statement, "the evaporating of fetal matter," belies your statement, "I disagree, but I understand."  Your own words show you don't understand at all.  If you did understand, you would not be so callous.

And referring to anyone else as an "imbecile," as you have, demonstrates a total lack of respect, tolerance, and understanding of the views of others.

George W. Hobbes was simply expressing a valid point, and that should be treated with respect, not derision.

Everyone understands that any one particular issue is only part of a much larger picture.     

I didn't call anyone particular  an imbecile, it was a generalization of all "social voters" whether they be pro-choice or not. No direct connection to Hobbes there. I think it's a fair claim to say that people who vote on a social basis are imbeciles (which by the way - by modern usage is closer to goof than idiot). The economy should never take a back seat to the economy and security and I find it hard to take anyone seriously that would imply otherwise.

And yes I do understand, they believe it's murder. I happen to disagree and believe that it's the evaporation of a blotch of fetal matter. I can understand how they would believe otherwise...but I don't agree. So I'm not going wishy wash my stance to be nice.

It is somewhat arrogant to believe that you are the only one capable of deciding which issues are important and which aren't. It's not "obvious".

Nice spin-job Karl. I am not saying that I am the only one capable...but if you were take a poll on the importance of issues...you'd notice the economic/security issues trouncing the social issues soundly. Which is why I believe that any one with the power to nominate a candidate should be smart enough to look at an economic/security record before taking srious offense to a few vague and un intresting comments about abortion/gay rights.

[Gustaf]

We consider abortion murder.  Thus not pathetic.

Learn to understand how the other side views issues.  It helps.  A lot.

Do you consider the evaporating of fetal matter to be more of a pressing issue than balancing the budget, national security, and border control? I understand how social right-wingers feel on the issue - I disagree, but I understand. The truth is that I don't care. Whether you are pro-choice or anti-choice, pro-life or pro-abortion...if you hold such a miniscule issue in higher regard to the economy and national security than you are an imbecile.

Your statement, "The truth is that I don't care,"  is clear.  You obviously don't. 

However, your statement, "the evaporating of fetal matter," belies your statement, "I disagree, but I understand."  Your own words show you don't understand at all.  If you did understand, you would not be so callous.

And referring to anyone else as an "imbecile," as you have, demonstrates a total lack of respect, tolerance, and understanding of the views of others.

George W. Hobbes was simply expressing a valid point, and that should be treated with respect, not derision.

Everyone understands that any one particular issue is only part of a much larger picture.     

I didn't call anyone particular  an imbecile, it was a generalization of all "social voters" whether they be pro-choice or not. No direct connection to Hobbes there. I think it's a fair claim to say that people who vote on a social basis are imbeciles (which by the way - by modern usage is closer to goof than idiot). The economy should never take a back seat to the economy and security and I find it hard to take anyone seriously that would imply otherwise.

And yes I do understand, they believe it's murder. I happen to disagree and believe that it's the evaporation of a blotch of fetal matter. I can understand how they would believe otherwise...but I don't agree. So I'm not going wishy wash my stance to be nice.

It is somewhat arrogant to believe that you are the only one capable of deciding which issues are important and which aren't. It's not "obvious".

Nice spin-job Karl. I am not saying that I am the only one capable...but if you were take a poll on the importance of issues...you'd notice the economic/security issues trouncing the social issues soundly. Which is why I believe that any one with the power to nominate a candidate should be smart enough to look at an economic/security record before taking srious offense to a few vague and un intresting comments about abortion/gay rights.

Why Karl?

And you said that people who voted on social issues were imbeciles, because those issues were less important.
"if you hold such a miniscule issue in higher regard to the economy and national security than you are an imbecile."

This is clearly saying that you can decide that economy and national security are more important than principles regarding what life is and the relation between the state and the individual.

[CARLHAYDEN]

Murder means "unlawfully taking someone's life."  It is true that the death penalty isn't murder, because it's not unlawful.  Then again, neither is abortion.

I do not see how a jury deciding on something makes it not murder.  If a jury decided to sentence a parking ticket violator to being stoned to death, would that be not murder?  That's ridiculous.

Err,

First, criminal homocide, at common law, consists of murder or manslaughter.

Second, a homocide is not criminal if it is: 1) justifiable or 2) excusable.

An example of justifiable homocide is self-defense, while the killing of an enemy combattent is excusable.

Third, abortion is merely lawful because certain members of the judiciary approve of it.  It is generally neither justifiable nor excusable.

[MODU]

Good for Allen.  Shows that he's gaining national appeal.  I could see an Allen/Gingrich ticket in 2008.

[CARLHAYDEN]

Good for Allen.  Shows that he's gaining national appeal.  I could see an Allen/Gingrich ticket in 2008.

I see it as:

Allen (VA) /Thompson (WI) vs. Warner (VA)/Richardson (NM)

All four will have been Governors.

[Republican Michigander]

I'd like to see that. A change from Washington's leaders. I'd back Allen (He's in the senate minority on ideology concerns), but I could live with Warner.

And that would be the first time this has happened since I started voting (1998)

[Nym90]

Good for Allen.  Shows that he's gaining national appeal.  I could see an Allen/Gingrich ticket in 2008.

I still don't see how 61 votes shows anything about anyone's national appeal, but I do agree that he is a viable candidate for the nomination.

[MODU]

Good for Allen.  Shows that he's gaining national appeal.  I could see an Allen/Gingrich ticket in 2008.

I still don't see how 61 votes shows anything about anyone's national appeal, but I do agree that he is a viable candidate for the nomination.

National appeal in the sense that Wisconsin is not Virginia, so if he can poll well in a different state, that means his appeal is not just regional.  Of course, I don't think anyone has done a state-by-state poll on all the leading GOP candidates, so we can't tell how far out Allen's appeal goes.

[Alcon]

Murder means "unlawfully taking someone's life."  It is true that the death penalty isn't murder, because it's not unlawful.  Then again, neither is abortion.

I do not see how a jury deciding on something makes it not murder.  If a jury decided to sentence a parking ticket violator to being stoned to death, would that be not murder?  That's ridiculous.

Err,

First, criminal homocide, at common law, consists of murder or manslaughter.

Second, a homocide is not criminal if it is: 1) justifiable or 2) excusable.

An example of justifiable homocide is self-defense, while the killing of an enemy combattent is excusable.

Third, abortion is merely lawful because certain members of the judiciary approve of it.  It is generally neither justifiable nor excusable.

Uh, I do not seee how that conflicts with my post at all.