So, who just watched 60 Minutes?

[12th Doctor]

I am, of course, refering to "Curveball".  Unbelievable.  Unf**king believable. 

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I didn't, but after searching about it I found this out:

CBS' 60 Minutes is revealing the identity of the Iraqi defector known as "Curveball," whose reports of alleged mobile biological weapons labs were a cornerstone of President Bush's rationale for going to war. The program, which airs Sunday, identifies him as Rafid Ahmed Alwan, who 60 Minutes says was "not only a liar, but also a thief and a poor student instead of the chemical engineering whiz he claimed to be."

http://blogs.usatoday.com/ondeadline/2007/11/60-minutes-iden.html

Freedom Fighters!

[12th Doctor]

I am just baffled at the gross incompetence of the Bush Administration.  I'm with the impeachment crowd now.

[StateBoiler]

Iraqi exiles that had ulterior motives used the American government to carry out their dirty work.

Unfortunately, it's not surprising. This is one of the reasons groupthink is bad. If a person knows what you want to hear, they'll tell it to you.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Iraqi exiles that had ulterior motives used the American government to carry out their dirty work.

Unfortunately, it's not surprising. This is one of the reasons groupthink is bad. If a person knows what you want to hear, they'll tell it to you.

This reminds me of StatesRights and Ford's insistence that the Salman Pak facility was a training facility for terrorists which proved Saddam had ties to terrorists. That was based on a few Iraqi exile testimonies which were later debunked and was even rejected by the Senate Intelligence Committee while under Republican control.

[muon2]

I heard a similar story on NPR in the last month. The 60 Minutes story matched the NPR account, but had the advantage of pictures to show the alleged WMD site. I found the German connection interesting, since I heard from some friends there about possible Iraqi WMD more than a year before the war - well before I picked it up in US media. The difference with those Germans was not on the intelligence, but only on what action to take in response.

If I understand the CBS conclusion, this was in large part to secure Curve Ball a green card in the west. It points to the extent that some refugees will undertake to secure permanent residency in the west.

[J. J.]

The CIA however did have an inside source, the Iraqi foreign minister, Naji Sabri. 

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines06/0321-09.htm

Sabri gave for the most part accurate information, no biological weapons, no nuclear program, but, apparently in good faith, indicated that Saddam had chemical weapon stockpiles.  As we know, Saddam used chemical weapons both against the Iranians and Kurds, so at some point he did have them.

That seems to have been reasonable (though wrong) intelligence that there were Iraqi chemical weapons.

[bgwah]

Welcome to 2003.

[Smash255]

I am just baffled at the gross incompetence of the Bush Administration.  I'm with the impeachment crowd now.

Probably haven't paid close enough attention to your past posts  to have noticed any shift you may have had, but this surprises me coming from you.

[Nym90]

I am just baffled at the gross incompetence of the Bush Administration.  I'm with the impeachment crowd now.

Either incompetence or there was an ulterior motive....money comes to mind.

But yeah, this was a pretty revealing story.

[J. J.]

I'm not in the impeachment crowd, but a lot of the argument was wrong, in regard to nuclear and biological weapons.  The chemical weapons intelligence was better sourced.  It's also possible that the stockpiles were destroyed shortly before or during the invasion, or moved.

[Smash255]

I just looked at part of it on the cbs website, about a 15 minute segment.   Unreal

[12th Doctor]

I am just baffled at the gross incompetence of the Bush Administration.  I'm with the impeachment crowd now.

Probably haven't paid close enough attention to your past posts  to have noticed any shift you may have had, but this surprises me coming from you.

I've been solidly in the anti-Bush camp for more than a year now, but this just amazes me.  I feel hurt and baffled.  I simply cannot believe that they used this guy as a credible source when his cover was easily blown by a two-bit news organization.

Either incompetence or there was an ulterior motive....money comes to mind.

But yeah, this was a pretty revealing story.

That too... either way, the story brought to light the volume of information they had to ignore to make their case.  To think that they fed Powell this crap and had him present it to the world with the conviction (I am sure he believed at the time) that it was 100% true.  Maybe Bush didn't know, but his advisors must have, and if this President wasn't curious enough to even ask before sending American men and women into combat, then I personally think we would be better off with Nancy Pelosi as President for the next year.

[bullmoose88]

I've been in the anti-Bush camp since he actually went through with invading Iraq.   I'm surprised more people didn't realize his bullcrap cause for war.

[MAS117]

I saw it and it just so happens that I finished my 2,500 essay on WMD in Iraq before the war.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Welcome to 2003.

I assume you're referencing the Niger Uranium forgeries.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niger_uranium_forgeries

[Smash255]

I am just baffled at the gross incompetence of the Bush Administration.  I'm with the impeachment crowd now.

Probably haven't paid close enough attention to your past posts  to have noticed any shift you may have had, but this surprises me coming from you.

I've been solidly in the anti-Bush camp for more than a year now, but this just amazes me.  I feel hurt and baffled.  I simply cannot believe that they used this guy as a credible source when his cover was easily blown by a two-bit news organization.

Either incompetence or there was an ulterior motive....money comes to mind.

But yeah, this was a pretty revealing story.

That too... either way, the story brought to light the volume of information they had to ignore to make their case.  To think that they fed Powell this crap and had him present it to the world with the conviction (I am sure he believed at the time) that it was 100% true.  Maybe Bush didn't know, but his advisors must have, and if this President wasn't curious enough to even ask before sending American men and women into combat, then I personally think we would be better off with Nancy Pelosi as President for the next year.

Their really is only two logical explanations to explain this and why we went to war.

1.  Bush knew it was false, but wanted war so he fed us a bunch of crap he knew was false and was told was false.  We have already seen this happen with the CIA Uranium claim in the State of the Union speech.

2.  Bush simply didn't care.   He wanted war and didn't give two craps about how reliable the information was other than if it will be something the public will buy into. 

I was against the war from the start and thought it was bs from the start.  However it is utterly mind boggling when you look at what information the administration had, what they knew, and not only still went ahead with this debacle in a horrific fashion with brutal planning I might add, but fed us this crap they knew was false.

[Padfoot]

I didn't watch the 60 Minutes segment but I seem to recall reading about the complete bullsh**t fed to us by the Iraqi informant in other news sources.  However, this isn't really the major reason I'm pissed at Bush and his cronies.  I'm really pissed because the invasion of Iraq has come entirely at the expense of stability in Afghanistan.  Thinking about where Afghanistan could be today if we never had invaded Iraq makes my blood boil.  The press has virtually ignored Afghanistan since the Iraq invasion which makes it all the worse.

[AkSaber]

I know I like to think I'm well-informed and all, but I had no idea about these things.

With a bullsh**t informant and the forged Yellowcake documents, I gotta say, it looks like our case against Iraq was a sham.