Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
August 22, 2014, 02:42:15 pm
HomePredMockPollEVCalcAFEWIKIHelpLogin Register
News: Don't forget to get your 2013 Gubernatorial Endorsements and Predictions in!

+  Atlas Forum
|-+  Election Archive
| |-+  2004 U.S. Presidential Election
| | |-+  Pennsylvania: Bush with narrow lead
« previous next »
Pages: [1] Print
Author Topic: Pennsylvania: Bush with narrow lead  (Read 2011 times)
NHPolitico
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 2304


View Profile
« on: March 31, 2004, 11:09:02 am »
Ignore

President Bush's campaign roll-out dislodged a few supporters from Democratic rival Sen. John Kerry in Pennsylvania, and Sen. Arlen Specter's campaign is holding on "against a fierce challenge" in the Republican primary, a new Keystone Poll finds.

Last month, a survey conducted by Franklin & Marshall College's Center for Opinion Research showed Bush trailing the Massachusetts senator, 47 percent to 46 percent.

The new poll, sponsored by The Patriot-News, WGAL-TV and other media organizations, shows Bush with what poll director G. Terry Madonna termed "a narrow lead," 46 percent to 40 percent.

"It shows that Bush had a better campaign month than Kerry," Madonna said. "But this race is still young and still close."

The Bush-Kerry results have a margin of error of plus or minus 4 percentage points.

Heading for the April 27 Republican U.S. Senate primary in Pennsylvania, Specter leads U.S. Rep. Pat Toomey, R-Allentown, 50 percent to 28 percent among all GOP registered voters, with the rest undecided. Those results have an error margin of plus or minus 6 percentage points.

Among a smaller group of voters who said they were "absolutely certain" to vote -- about 37 percent of the total GOP voters -- Specter led 46 percent to 33 percent. But the findings reflected only 94 GOP voters and had an error margin of plus or minus 10 percentage points.

The majority of Bush voters said homeland security and the war on terrorism were their top issues -- 39 percent chose that, while 21 percent were concerned most about the economy.

Kerry voters had different concerns: 42 percent said the economy and jobs were the top issue, while terrorism and homeland security issues finished fifth, at 8 percent.

Analysts said the disparity was driven by each campaign's themes. Bush is the first president in recent years whose administration lost more than 2 million jobs, so he has emphasized the modest job recovery of late last year and the war on terrorism.

Kerry has said that jobs are his top priority, and criticized Bush for the job loss.

"This month showed what a strong campaign can do to their opponent in a month, and despite everything that has come out, Bush's numbers are holding strong," Madonna said. "But he turned some of Kerry's supporters last month into undecideds this month. It's Kerry's job to catch up and win them back."

In the Senate race, the survey showed Toomey is still unknown to half of Republican primary voters. And while regional breakdowns have error margins of more than 10 percentage points, they showed Specter leading widely in central Pennsylvania, a traditionally conservative area.

The poll shows Toomey tied with Specter in Specter's hometown, Philadelphia, and leading in southwestern Pennsylvania, the Northeast and Lehigh Valley.

Conservative strategists have said Toomey needs to win central Pennsylvania and the Pittsburgh and Erie suburbs by wide margins to mount a serious challenge. In the Keystone Poll, Toomey trails Specter by 2-1 margins in central and northwestern Pennsylvania, and is closing in on Specter in Allegheny County, where he trails 52 percent to 43 percent.

Toomey leads in the southwest counties around Allegheny, 54 percent to 23 percent.

Toomey spokesman Mark Dion said Specter "is sinking like a rock while Congressman Toomey continues to steadily increase his numbers. Pennsylvania Republicans are tired of [Specter's] liberal voting record and are excited about a new mainstream Republican alternative."

Dion said the campaign's multiple mailings and television ads would help voters get acquainted with Toomey.

Specter spokesman Chris Nicholas said the poll interviewed too few Republicans to be credible. He added, "after $2 million of negative ads from Pat Toomey and his allies, Toomey is still below 30 percent," in the survey of registered Republican voters.

Madonna said the poll showed little progress for Toomey, and that "Specter is defending well against a fierce attack."

The Keystone Poll showed voters are angry with incumbents. Only one-third of voters said things in the state "are generally headed in the right direction," while 50 percent said events in the state were "off on the wrong track."
Logged

"I like to help old ladies across the street. Sometimes they don't want to be helped. It's terrible." -- Barry Seinfeld
Don't tell me we can't change.
RG Fritz
JLD
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 5464
United States


View Profile
« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2004, 01:26:04 pm »
Ignore

Here is what Rasmussen Reports has to say about Pennsylvania.....

March 18, 2004--In Pennsylvania, as the election season begins, it's a toss-up. Massachusetts Senator John F. Kerry attracts 45% of the Pennsylvania vote while President George W. Bush has earned 44%.
 
Four years ago, Bush lost to Al Gore by five percentage points in Pennsylvania. This polling data suggests that the state is clearly in play during Election 2004.

Kerry leads among the state's women voters by seven points while Bush holds a five-point advantage among the men.

Fifty-four percent (54%) of all Pennsylvania voters approve of the way Bush has performed his role as President. Forty-five percent (45%) disapprove.

Forty-three percent (43%) of Pennsylvania voters give the President good or excellent ratings for his handling of the economy. Fifteen percent (15%) say he is doing a fair job in this area while 41% say poor.


Logged

The Vorlon
Vorlon
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4565


Political Matrix
E: 8.00, S: -4.21

View Profile
« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2004, 01:30:16 pm »
Ignore

Here is the link...

http://pdn.philly.com/2004/03/31/keyzpoll.pdf

Two points....

1:  My thread of a week ago asking if PA was "in play" looks a lot more rational than it did... (my March 27th prediction map reflects PA leaning Bush, as you will all note....)

2: Don't pay all that much attention to this poll (as he blatently contradicts point 1)

Firstly, this is a University/College poll.  I don't know all that much about the Keystone Poll, but in an act of blatent "pollster profiling" unless I have crushing evidence to the contrary, I generally ignore College/University polls.

Secondly, the poll found a 47/44 GOP voter identification/registration advantage.

Pennsylvania is actually basically even in GOP/Dem voter registration, so this mini-blip in GOP registration advantage is likely due to the semi-hot GOP Senate primary race which is likely juicing up GOP registrations a bit, so I'd trim Bush's 6 point "lead" back 3 points or so in my own mind.

(That being said the same poll found a 5% GOP registration advantage in February so the actual drop in Kerry support may have been a bit bigger than this poll suggests, however...)

Another question I have about this polls is that all the data tables are headed with the prefix "Weighted Data" but no where does the text of the poll explain their weightings, which renders it very hard to make any qualitative evaluation on this poll at all...

Lastly, and perhaps most importantly, this poll was designed to measure the GOP senate race, not the November Presidential race...

As my woodworking friends keep telling me.. "The right tool for the right job...."
« Last Edit: March 31, 2004, 01:33:04 pm by The Vorlon »Logged

No man's liberty is safe while Congress is in session...Thomas Jefferson
angus
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 14701
Political Matrix
E: 1.87, S: -7.65

View Profile
« Reply #3 on: March 31, 2004, 01:33:05 pm »
Ignore

I like a man that doesn't need a partner for a debate.  Wink
Logged
The Vorlon
Vorlon
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4565


Political Matrix
E: 8.00, S: -4.21

View Profile
« Reply #4 on: March 31, 2004, 01:35:27 pm »
Ignore

I like a man that doesn't need a partner for a debate.  Wink

With ONE fact you can make an easy choice,..

With TEN facts you can make the hard choice,...

With ALL the facts you can make the right choice,...

Ayn Rand
Logged

No man's liberty is safe while Congress is in session...Thomas Jefferson
angus
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 14701
Political Matrix
E: 1.87, S: -7.65

View Profile
« Reply #5 on: March 31, 2004, 01:40:17 pm »
Ignore

The first 500 pages of atlas shrugged take several weeks, as I recall, but the last 500 hundred are so intriguing that they can be read in one sitting.  I still love that stamp, even though it's smaller now.

Actually, my undergrad statistics professor gave us that same exact quote, thus engendering my interest in Ayn Rand.  You never did respond to repeated requests for elaboration about your feelings on uni polls.
Logged
Beef
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 2645
United States


Political Matrix
E: -3.42, S: -6.70

P
View Profile
« Reply #6 on: March 31, 2004, 02:11:25 pm »
Ignore

Pennsylvania will be closely tied to Ohio, as will Michigan.  The better Bush does in Ohio, the better he will do in the other two.  I think Ohio will be the easiest to win, followed by Penn., followed by Michigan.  Bush will probably do four points worse in Pennsylvania than he does in Ohio, and eight points worse in Michigan.  So...

If Bush wins by five points in Ohio,
he takes Penn. by one point,
and loses Michigan by four.

If Bush wins Ohio by nine points,
he takes Penn. by five,
and takes Michigan by one.

Or some correlation very much like that.
Logged

HockeyDude
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 6428
United States


Political Matrix
E: -8.19, S: -8.78

View Profile
« Reply #7 on: March 31, 2004, 02:16:49 pm »
Ignore

Pennsylvania will be closely tied to Ohio, as will Michigan.  The better Bush does in Ohio, the better he will do in the other two.  I think Ohio will be the easiest to win, followed by Penn., followed by Michigan.  Bush will probably do four points worse in Pennsylvania than he does in Ohio, and eight points worse in Michigan.  So...

If Bush wins by five points in Ohio,
he takes Penn. by one point,
and loses Michigan by four.

If Bush wins Ohio by nine points,
he takes Penn. by five,
and takes Michigan by one.

Or some correlation very much like that.

Michigan seems out of reach for Bush IMO.  Pennsylvania, Ohio, and Florida will decide this election.  Whoever wins 2 of 3 wins the election.  The only other way I could see it is Kerry could win just one of them, but pick up WV, NH, and AZ.  
Logged

I have an important announcement.  I have officially set a date for the erection
Gustaf
Moderators
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 26809


Political Matrix
E: 0.39, S: -0.70

View Profile
« Reply #8 on: March 31, 2004, 02:27:29 pm »
Ignore

Pennsylvania will be closely tied to Ohio, as will Michigan.  The better Bush does in Ohio, the better he will do in the other two.  I think Ohio will be the easiest to win, followed by Penn., followed by Michigan.  Bush will probably do four points worse in Pennsylvania than he does in Ohio, and eight points worse in Michigan.  So...

If Bush wins by five points in Ohio,
he takes Penn. by one point,
and loses Michigan by four.

If Bush wins Ohio by nine points,
he takes Penn. by five,
and takes Michigan by one.

Or some correlation very much like that.

Michigan seems out of reach for Bush IMO.  Pennsylvania, Ohio, and Florida will decide this election.  Whoever wins 2 of 3 wins the election.  The only other way I could see it is Kerry could win just one of them, but pick up WV, NH, and AZ.  

Kerry won't win Arizona. And Michigan is in play I think. I'd say that both candidates have to win 2 out of PA, OH and FL to win.
Logged

This place really has become a cesspool of degenerate whores...

Economic score: +0.9
Social score: -2.61

In MN for fantasy stuff, member of the most recently dissolved centrist party.
The Vorlon
Vorlon
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4565


Political Matrix
E: 8.00, S: -4.21

View Profile
« Reply #9 on: March 31, 2004, 02:30:35 pm »
Ignore

You never did respond to repeated requests for elaboration about your feelings on uni polls.

Why UNI polls have... issues.... would require  the writing of a book...

I will start the book here...

Lets follow the path of a poll to get it right...

Step 1; - Your list of Phone Numbers...

You cannot simply "randomly" pick phone numbers...

Rich people have more phone lines than poor people..
Families with teenagers have more phone lines
Young people have more cell phones than old people
Young people have more land lines than the old
Many people have a cell and an land line..

etc... etc...

To get a list of phone numbers that actually allows you to CONTACT a truly RANDOM sample of the population you need to do a huge amount of cross correlation of census tracks, phone directory information, etc...

This is far too complex a matter to get into here, but I'll make one point..

The generation of a truly random contact list is such a huge and complex matter that not even Gallup does it in house - Gallup buys their phone lists (as do most top-tier firms) from a company called Survey Sample Inc, who does nothing but sell these lists..

If Gallup (which has as many ph'ds as a lot of Universities) has concluded that not even they can do this VITAL step in house, what do you think the chances that one marketing professor and two grad students are going to get it right?

Likely voters?

Most of these Universities have never come within 50 miles of an actual election poll under "combat" conditions.

People lie when they are polled.  Gallup uses 13 questyions to sort the "likely" from the "unlikely" most Universities use 2 or 3...

To pick on Keystone (since it is the topic of this thread) They are projecting that 35% of the entire sample of 565 registered voters meets their criteria as a likely GOP Primary voter..  this means that about +/- 70% of all registered GOP voters will vote in the primary.. are they on Drugs...?

in 2000, in a hotly contest Presidential race, plus a hotly contested Senate race on top of it, only 63% of the registered voters turned up to vote..

70% GOP turnout in a lukewarm Senate Primary...?

Give your head a shake...

Topics to still be covered....

Who are your operators?
Callbacks?
Is the ph'd in Math or Marketing?

TO BE CONTINUED.....

« Last Edit: March 31, 2004, 02:34:00 pm by The Vorlon »Logged

No man's liberty is safe while Congress is in session...Thomas Jefferson
Dave from Michigan
9iron768
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 3296
United States


View Profile
« Reply #10 on: March 31, 2004, 03:00:12 pm »
Ignore

Michigan is in play
Logged
Sibboleth
Realpolitik
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 56361
Saint Helena


View Profile WWW
« Reply #11 on: March 31, 2004, 03:02:19 pm »
Ignore

Michigan is in play

Most states probably are...
Logged

"I have become entangled in my own data, and my conclusion stands in direct contradiction to the initial idea from which I started. Proceeding from unlimited freedom, I end with unlimited despotism. I will add, however, that there can be no solution of the social formula except mine."
NHPolitico
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 2304


View Profile
« Reply #12 on: March 31, 2004, 03:07:01 pm »
Ignore

Here is what Rasmussen Reports has to say about Pennsylvania.....

March 18, 2004--In Pennsylvania, as the election season begins, it's a toss-up. Massachusetts Senator John F. Kerry attracts 45% of the Pennsylvania vote while President George W. Bush has earned 44%.
 
Four years ago, Bush lost to Al Gore by five percentage points in Pennsylvania. This polling data suggests that the state is clearly in play during Election 2004.

Kerry leads among the state's women voters by seven points while Bush holds a five-point advantage among the men.

Fifty-four percent (54%) of all Pennsylvania voters approve of the way Bush has performed his role as President. Forty-five percent (45%) disapprove.

Forty-three percent (43%) of Pennsylvania voters give the President good or excellent ratings for his handling of the economy. Fifteen percent (15%) say he is doing a fair job in this area while 41% say poor.




The whole point of the story is the shift in the past two weeks--as in when your mentioned poll took place.
Logged

"I like to help old ladies across the street. Sometimes they don't want to be helped. It's terrible." -- Barry Seinfeld
Don't tell me we can't change.
opebo
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 47627


View Profile
« Reply #13 on: March 31, 2004, 05:18:34 pm »
Ignore

Pennsylvania will be closely tied to Ohio, as will Michigan.  The better Bush does in Ohio, the better he will do in the other two.  I think Ohio will be the easiest to win, followed by Penn., followed by Michigan.  Bush will probably do four points worse in Pennsylvania than he does in Ohio, and eight points worse in Michigan.  So...

If Bush wins by five points in Ohio,
he takes Penn. by one point,
and loses Michigan by four.

If Bush wins Ohio by nine points,
he takes Penn. by five,
and takes Michigan by one.

Or some correlation very much like that.

You're extrapolating from 2000 too much - I suspect Bush will do about the same in Ohio and Pennsylvania this time.  Maybe a point or two better in OH.  My point is that while OH is traditionally a GOP state it has stayed static while PA has moved right.  They're probably at a similar point right now.
Logged

The essence of democracy at its purest is a lynch mob

RomneyGekko Situation Hairgel
Flyers2004
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 10527


Political Matrix
E: -3.48, S: -4.87

View Profile
« Reply #14 on: April 01, 2004, 03:57:46 am »
Ignore

You never did respond to repeated requests for elaboration about your feelings on uni polls.

Why UNI polls have... issues.... would require  the writing of a book...

I will start the book here...

Lets follow the path of a poll to get it right...

Step 1; - Your list of Phone Numbers...

You cannot simply "randomly" pick phone numbers...

Rich people have more phone lines than poor people..
Families with teenagers have more phone lines
Young people have more cell phones than old people
Young people have more land lines than the old
Many people have a cell and an land line..

etc... etc...

To get a list of phone numbers that actually allows you to CONTACT a truly RANDOM sample of the population you need to do a huge amount of cross correlation of census tracks, phone directory information, etc...

This is far too complex a matter to get into here, but I'll make one point..

The generation of a truly random contact list is such a huge and complex matter that not even Gallup does it in house - Gallup buys their phone lists (as do most top-tier firms) from a company called Survey Sample Inc, who does nothing but sell these lists..

If Gallup (which has as many ph'ds as a lot of Universities) has concluded that not even they can do this VITAL step in house, what do you think the chances that one marketing professor and two grad students are going to get it right?

Likely voters?

Most of these Universities have never come within 50 miles of an actual election poll under "combat" conditions.

People lie when they are polled.  Gallup uses 13 questyions to sort the "likely" from the "unlikely" most Universities use 2 or 3...

To pick on Keystone (since it is the topic of this thread) They are projecting that 35% of the entire sample of 565 registered voters meets their criteria as a likely GOP Primary voter..  this means that about +/- 70% of all registered GOP voters will vote in the primary.. are they on Drugs...?

in 2000, in a hotly contest Presidential race, plus a hotly contested Senate race on top of it, only 63% of the registered voters turned up to vote..

70% GOP turnout in a lukewarm Senate Primary...?

Give your head a shake...

Topics to still be covered....

Who are your operators?
Callbacks?
Is the ph'd in Math or Marketing?

TO BE CONTINUED.....



Given this PA has a lot of seniors who vote and in trun will go Kerry because of veteran issues, SSI, and Medicare.  I'll pick Kerry +8 since he's stronger than Gore.
Logged


DOUCHEBAGGERY AT ITS FINEST!
12th Doctor
supersoulty
Moderators
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 20702
Ukraine


Political Matrix
E: 1.38, S: -1.74

View Profile
« Reply #15 on: April 01, 2004, 12:13:49 pm »
Ignore

You never did respond to repeated requests for elaboration about your feelings on uni polls.

Why UNI polls have... issues.... would require  the writing of a book...

I will start the book here...

Lets follow the path of a poll to get it right...

Step 1; - Your list of Phone Numbers...

You cannot simply "randomly" pick phone numbers...

Rich people have more phone lines than poor people..
Families with teenagers have more phone lines
Young people have more cell phones than old people
Young people have more land lines than the old
Many people have a cell and an land line..

etc... etc...

To get a list of phone numbers that actually allows you to CONTACT a truly RANDOM sample of the population you need to do a huge amount of cross correlation of census tracks, phone directory information, etc...

This is far too complex a matter to get into here, but I'll make one point..

The generation of a truly random contact list is such a huge and complex matter that not even Gallup does it in house - Gallup buys their phone lists (as do most top-tier firms) from a company called Survey Sample Inc, who does nothing but sell these lists..

If Gallup (which has as many ph'ds as a lot of Universities) has concluded that not even they can do this VITAL step in house, what do you think the chances that one marketing professor and two grad students are going to get it right?

Likely voters?

Most of these Universities have never come within 50 miles of an actual election poll under "combat" conditions.

People lie when they are polled.  Gallup uses 13 questyions to sort the "likely" from the "unlikely" most Universities use 2 or 3...

To pick on Keystone (since it is the topic of this thread) They are projecting that 35% of the entire sample of 565 registered voters meets their criteria as a likely GOP Primary voter..  this means that about +/- 70% of all registered GOP voters will vote in the primary.. are they on Drugs...?

in 2000, in a hotly contest Presidential race, plus a hotly contested Senate race on top of it, only 63% of the registered voters turned up to vote..

70% GOP turnout in a lukewarm Senate Primary...?

Give your head a shake...

Topics to still be covered....

Who are your operators?
Callbacks?
Is the ph'd in Math or Marketing?

TO BE CONTINUED.....



Given this PA has a lot of seniors who vote and in trun will go Kerry because of veteran issues, SSI, and Medicare.  I'll pick Kerry +8 since he's stronger than Gore.


I've made this point time and time again, so what is once more?  

Many of the seniors who voted for Gore in 2000 are dead!!!!
Logged

angus
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 14701
Political Matrix
E: 1.87, S: -7.65

View Profile
« Reply #16 on: April 01, 2004, 01:18:22 pm »
Ignore


I've made this point time and time again, so what is once more?  

Many of the seniors who voted for Gore in 2000 are dead!!!!

Many of the seniors who voted for Gore in 2000 were dead already.
Logged
Gustaf
Moderators
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 26809


Political Matrix
E: 0.39, S: -0.70

View Profile
« Reply #17 on: April 01, 2004, 01:32:39 pm »
Ignore


I've made this point time and time again, so what is once more?  

Many of the seniors who voted for Gore in 2000 are dead!!!!

Many of the seniors who voted for Gore in 2000 were dead already.

LOL! Cheesy
Logged

This place really has become a cesspool of degenerate whores...

Economic score: +0.9
Social score: -2.61

In MN for fantasy stuff, member of the most recently dissolved centrist party.
The Vorlon
Vorlon
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4565


Political Matrix
E: 8.00, S: -4.21

View Profile
« Reply #18 on: April 01, 2004, 03:47:14 pm »
Ignore


I've made this point time and time again, so what is once more?  

Many of the seniors who voted for Gore in 2000 are dead!!!!

Many of the seniors who voted for Gore in 2000 were dead already.

LOL! Cheesy

The Voter Fraud Enablement & Crooked Politician Protection Act Moter voter act is, on paper, a nice expression of the democratic sentiment that voting is good.

As a practical matter, I have seen voter turn out in certain areas that..... seems to defy historic turnout patterns....

Here is a stab at bi-partisanship...

Do any of the Democrats on this board think it would be an intrusive violation of somebody's voter rights to require voters registered via the Moter Voter act to produce the very drivers licence that got them registered..?

Or, (while we are on role...) have everybody who shows up to vote present maybe 1 piece of picture ID...?

And if the person has no ID, let any other voter with ID "vouch" for them by signing a declaration that they know the person trying to vote and certify they are who they say they are...?

As a historic note, the Democrats in the Senate have fillibustered these measures again, and again, and again...

Why?

I am generally fairly non-partisan here on these boards, but voter fraud IS an issue, and I don't think any of the stuff above is draconian in any way...

Comments...?

(Yes Dems, you have a legitimate issue on "voter disenfranchinesment" - but that's a DIFFERENT legitimate issue than the voter fraud I am talking about here)
Logged

No man's liberty is safe while Congress is in session...Thomas Jefferson
Gustaf
Moderators
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 26809


Political Matrix
E: 0.39, S: -0.70

View Profile
« Reply #19 on: April 01, 2004, 03:49:32 pm »
Ignore


I've made this point time and time again, so what is once more?  

Many of the seniors who voted for Gore in 2000 are dead!!!!

Many of the seniors who voted for Gore in 2000 were dead already.

LOL! Cheesy

The Voter Fraud Enablement & Crooked Politician Protection Act Moter voter act is, on paper, a nice expression of the democratic sentiment that voting is good.

As a practical matter, I have seen voter turn out in certain areas that..... seems to defy historic turnout patterns....

Here is a stab at bi-partisanship...

Do any of the Democrats on this board think it would be an intrusive violation of somebody's voter rights to require voters registered via the Moter Voter act to produce the very drivers licence that got them registered..?

Or, (while we are on role...) have everybody who shows up to vote present maybe 1 piece of picture ID...?

And if the person has no ID, let any other voter with ID "vouch" for them by signing a declaration that they know the person trying to vote and certify they are who they say they are...?

As a historic note, the Democrats in the Senate have fillibustered these measures again, and again, and again...

Why?

I am generally fairly non-partisan here on these boards, but voter fraud IS an issue, and I don't think any of the stuff above is draconian in any way...

Comments...?

(Yes Dems, you have a legitimate issue on "voter disenfranchinesment" - but that's a DIFFERENT legitimate issue than the voter fraud I am talking about here)

I'm with you. Smiley
Logged

This place really has become a cesspool of degenerate whores...

Economic score: +0.9
Social score: -2.61

In MN for fantasy stuff, member of the most recently dissolved centrist party.
angus
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 14701
Political Matrix
E: 1.87, S: -7.65

View Profile
« Reply #20 on: April 01, 2004, 03:52:15 pm »
Ignore


I've made this point time and time again, so what is once more?  

Many of the seniors who voted for Gore in 2000 are dead!!!!

Many of the seniors who voted for Gore in 2000 were dead already.

LOL! Cheesy

The Voter Fraud Enablement & Crooked Politician Protection Act Moter voter act is, on paper, a nice expression of the democratic sentiment that voting is good.

As a practical matter, I have seen voter turn out in certain areas that..... seems to defy historic turnout patterns....

Here is a stab at bi-partisanship...

Do any of the Democrats on this board think it would be an intrusive violation of somebody's voter rights to require voters registered via the Moter Voter act to produce the very drivers licence that got them registered..?

Or, (while we are on role...) have everybody who shows up to vote present maybe 1 piece of picture ID...?

And if the person has no ID, let any other voter with ID "vouch" for them by signing a declaration that they know the person trying to vote and certify they are who they say they are...?

As a historic note, the Democrats in the Senate have fillibustered these measures again, and again, and again...

Why?

I am generally fairly non-partisan here on these boards, but voter fraud IS an issue, and I don't think any of the stuff above is draconian in any way...

Comments...?

(Yes Dems, you have a legitimate issue on "voter disenfranchinesment" - but that's a DIFFERENT legitimate issue than the voter fraud I am talking about here)

I'm with you. Smiley

one in 35 million californians are with you too.  I am that one. Smiley
Logged
Gustaf
Moderators
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 26809


Political Matrix
E: 0.39, S: -0.70

View Profile
« Reply #21 on: April 01, 2004, 03:56:02 pm »
Ignore


I've made this point time and time again, so what is once more?  

Many of the seniors who voted for Gore in 2000 are dead!!!!

Many of the seniors who voted for Gore in 2000 were dead already.

LOL! Cheesy

The Voter Fraud Enablement & Crooked Politician Protection Act Moter voter act is, on paper, a nice expression of the democratic sentiment that voting is good.

As a practical matter, I have seen voter turn out in certain areas that..... seems to defy historic turnout patterns....

Here is a stab at bi-partisanship...

Do any of the Democrats on this board think it would be an intrusive violation of somebody's voter rights to require voters registered via the Moter Voter act to produce the very drivers licence that got them registered..?

Or, (while we are on role...) have everybody who shows up to vote present maybe 1 piece of picture ID...?

And if the person has no ID, let any other voter with ID "vouch" for them by signing a declaration that they know the person trying to vote and certify they are who they say they are...?

As a historic note, the Democrats in the Senate have fillibustered these measures again, and again, and again...

Why?

I am generally fairly non-partisan here on these boards, but voter fraud IS an issue, and I don't think any of the stuff above is draconian in any way...

Comments...?

(Yes Dems, you have a legitimate issue on "voter disenfranchinesment" - but that's a DIFFERENT legitimate issue than the voter fraud I am talking about here)

I'm with you. Smiley

one in 35 million californians are with you too.  I am that one. Smiley

Well, that's a total of 1 (!) American voter then. Smiley
Logged

This place really has become a cesspool of degenerate whores...

Economic score: +0.9
Social score: -2.61

In MN for fantasy stuff, member of the most recently dissolved centrist party.
Pages: [1] Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Logout

Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines