Mississippi 2003

[NHPolitico]

Its a sad state when you can tell whether someone will vote Rep or Dem just by looking at them. I bet Barbour won 80%+ of the white vote and Musgrave won 80%+ of the black vote. Tell me if I am right, David.

I'd add to my post that Gov. Riley tried to raise taxes in Alabama to benefit poor Alabamans, like most Alabama African Americans are.  The result? They didn't support the idea at the ballot box because they thought it was some kind of conspiracy-- imagine, a Republican trying to help a black person (like Col. Sanders helping a chicken as JC Watts' dad used to say to JC).

Still some Republicans score well with blacks-- comparatively speaking. Ashcroft got nearly 20% of the black vote in 2000 but lost because he just got barely over the 50% mark among whites. Ohio blacks are quite receptive to the GOP.

Take Mississippi. The Dem nominee for Lt. Governor was a crazy woman. I mean a nutburger who had no business running for a very powerful position in the state-- which lt. gov is in MS. She got plenty of black votes.  Maybe they didn't know she was a nut because they didn't really follow the race, maybe they just vote Dem by reflex, but she got over a third of the general election vote and you could probably count on one hand the number of white people who voted for her.

[NHPolitico]

Its a sad state when you can tell whether someone will vote Rep or Dem just by looking at them. I bet Barbour won 80%+ of the white vote and Musgrave won 80%+ of the black vote. Tell me if I am right, David.

I keep thinking of things on this subject because it annoys the hell out of me.  Even Al Gore knows that you can scare blacks into voting Dem.

"They use colorblind the way duck hunters use their duck blind. They hide behind it and hope the ducks won't figure out what they're up to."  Hmmm.. what do you do behind a duck blind? You shoot ducks. Well what would you do behind a "colorblind?"

Bob Kerrey denounced the NAACP ad saying that Bush not signing a hate crimes law was the same as dragging a black man in chains behind a truck again.

I'm still researching this subject so I may post more.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

I personally find the GOP whipping up racial tensions to win close races in the Deep South(ala Barbour 2003) even more disgusting.
Divide and Rule.

Urgh...

[NHPolitico]

I personally find the GOP whipping up racial tensions to win close races in the Deep South(ala Barbour 2003) even more disgusting.
Divide and Rule.

Urgh...

This is like the GA Senate race from last year. Democrats say that Chambliss won and Cleland lost because voters believed Chambliss' lie that Cleland was an unpatriotic traitor and Democrats just repeat it over and over as if it were a fact.

Same thing with this lie that Barbour is governor because he celebrated racism.  It's garbage. First, the "racist" event Haley went to was not sponsored by the CCC. The CCC sponsored a barbecue at the event, but the event was sponsored by the Black Hawk (private school) Bus Association and the Carrollton Masonic Lodge.  Ronnie Musgrove said he had attended the Black Hawk rally in support of raising money for these buses in the past but didn't then because of a scheduling conflict.   If the BHBA wants to accept a check from the CCC that's their damn business.  And that "racist" Southern Cross flag he wore was supported by a huge majority of the population of MS in the ballot vote a few years ago.  I suppose most of the whole state are racists, and I suppose it's only proper they have a racist governor.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Do you realize how racist your posts on this thread look(I'm not calling you a racist but the stuff you wrote looks bad)
I accept that this will cause an enraged responce, but the tone of what you wrote seems to me to be quite unsettling.
No offense ment.

[NHPolitico]

Do you realize how racist your posts on this thread look(I'm not calling you a racist but the stuff you wrote looks bad)
I accept that this will cause an enraged responce, but the tone of what you wrote seems to me to be quite unsettling.
No offense ment.

It's hard for me to follow the chains of posts, but I'm guessing you're replying to me. I'm not a raging person, so no, I won't be posting an enraged response.  What exactly did I write that "looks" racist?  I did say that if one thinks that the flag on his lapel is racist and that one thinks that those who'd wear it or support it are racists or foster racism, then most of the state is apparently racist or fosters racism, which, of course, is ridiculous.  

[NHPolitico]

Do you realize how racist your posts on this thread look(I'm not calling you a racist but the stuff you wrote looks bad)
I accept that this will cause an enraged responce, but the tone of what you wrote seems to me to be quite unsettling.
No offense ment.

And there are plenty of nutburgers of all races. Barbara Blackmon just happens to be black. She could happen to be purple, but she is a nutburger regardless.  I don't know exactly what it means about the Democrat primary voters of Mississippi that they'd nominate her.  It could be that she was the only one literally crazy enough to run against Tuck.  I'd think it would be better to not nominate anyone like the AR-GOP does with great frequency.

[Gustaf]

Do you realize how racist your posts on this thread look(I'm not calling you a racist but the stuff you wrote looks bad)
I accept that this will cause an enraged responce, but the tone of what you wrote seems to me to be quite unsettling.
No offense ment.

It's hard for me to follow the chains of posts, but I'm guessing you're replying to me. I'm not a raging person, so no, I won't be posting an enraged response.  What exactly did I write that "looks" racist?  I did say that if one thinks that the flag on his lapel is racist and that one thinks that those who'd wear it or support it are racists or foster racism, then most of the state is apparently racist or fosters racism, which, of course, is ridiculous.  

I haven't read all of the posts carefully, but I would just like to point out that the use of symbols should be done with some consideration. The "Heil Hitler salute" is not racist, it's Roman, the Swastika is an ancient Asian symbol and calling oneself a national socialist does not necessarily correspond approval of Hitler's deeds. All these things are true. Nevertheless, I would never use any of these symbols, since I know how most people look at them, and b/c everyone knows that those who use it are viewed as racists, only actual racists feel comfortable doing so. That is not strange, it is natural.

[Gustaf]

I came across these figures regarding the topic discussed above if anyone is interested.

Barbour captured 77 percent of the
white vote, which makes up 65 percent of the state's electorate.
Musgrove won 94 percent of the African-American vote, which represents
33 percent of the state's voters.

Am I being stupid, or are you saying that blacks and whites together makes up 119% of the electorate?

[Gustaf]

Do you realize how racist your posts on this thread look(I'm not calling you a racist but the stuff you wrote looks bad)
I accept that this will cause an enraged responce, but the tone of what you wrote seems to me to be quite unsettling.
No offense ment.

It's hard for me to follow the chains of posts, but I'm guessing you're replying to me. I'm not a raging person, so no, I won't be posting an enraged response.  What exactly did I write that "looks" racist?  I did say that if one thinks that the flag on his lapel is racist and that one thinks that those who'd wear it or support it are racists or foster racism, then most of the state is apparently racist or fosters racism, which, of course, is ridiculous.  

The way you talk about "blacks" voting stupidly, I guess. It's a little careless, perhaps, I myself did not react much but I can see how one definitely could. Maybe you should just think about it.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

The way you talk about "blacks" voting stupidly, I guess. It's a little careless, perhaps, I myself did not react much but I can see how one definitely could. Maybe you should just think about it.

Exactly.

[Gustaf]

The way you talk about "blacks" voting stupidly, I guess. It's a little careless, perhaps, I myself did not react much but I can see how one definitely could. Maybe you should just think about it.

Exactly.

Hah! I'm a mind-reader!

[NHPolitico]

The way you talk about "blacks" voting stupidly, I guess. It's a little careless, perhaps, I myself did not react much but I can see how one definitely could. Maybe you should just think about it.

Exactly.

When did I say blacks vote "stupidly"?

[NHPolitico]

The way you talk about "blacks" voting stupidly, I guess. It's a little careless, perhaps, I myself did not react much but I can see how one definitely could. Maybe you should just think about it.

Exactly.

Hah! I'm a mind-reader!

When did I say blacks vote "stupidly"?

[NHPolitico]

Do you realize how racist your posts on this thread look(I'm not calling you a racist but the stuff you wrote looks bad)
I accept that this will cause an enraged responce, but the tone of what you wrote seems to me to be quite unsettling.
No offense ment.

It's hard for me to follow the chains of posts, but I'm guessing you're replying to me. I'm not a raging person, so no, I won't be posting an enraged response.  What exactly did I write that "looks" racist?  I did say that if one thinks that the flag on his lapel is racist and that one thinks that those who'd wear it or support it are racists or foster racism, then most of the state is apparently racist or fosters racism, which, of course, is ridiculous.  

I haven't read all of the posts carefully, but I would just like to point out that the use of symbols should be done with some consideration. The "Heil Hitler salute" is not racist, it's Roman, the Swastika is an ancient Asian symbol and calling oneself a national socialist does not necessarily correspond approval of Hitler's deeds. All these things are true. Nevertheless, I would never use any of these symbols, since I know how most people look at them, and b/c everyone knows that those who use it are viewed as racists, only actual racists feel comfortable doing so. That is not strange, it is natural.

So, because ACT-UP uses the rainbow, religious groups should reconsider using the rainbow, because people may misinterpret what it means?  If some loony Koresh-ite were the leader of a nation and made genocide on his people (because we had a government that didn't want to intervene like FDR didn't) and he used the cross as his symbol, should Christians let the cross be as worthless as a positive symbol as the swastika? You can't let people steal your symbols.

[Gustaf]

Do you realize how racist your posts on this thread look(I'm not calling you a racist but the stuff you wrote looks bad)
I accept that this will cause an enraged responce, but the tone of what you wrote seems to me to be quite unsettling.
No offense ment.

It's hard for me to follow the chains of posts, but I'm guessing you're replying to me. I'm not a raging person, so no, I won't be posting an enraged response.  What exactly did I write that "looks" racist?  I did say that if one thinks that the flag on his lapel is racist and that one thinks that those who'd wear it or support it are racists or foster racism, then most of the state is apparently racist or fosters racism, which, of course, is ridiculous.  

I haven't read all of the posts carefully, but I would just like to point out that the use of symbols should be done with some consideration. The "Heil Hitler salute" is not racist, it's Roman, the Swastika is an ancient Asian symbol and calling oneself a national socialist does not necessarily correspond approval of Hitler's deeds. All these things are true. Nevertheless, I would never use any of these symbols, since I know how most people look at them, and b/c everyone knows that those who use it are viewed as racists, only actual racists feel comfortable doing so. That is not strange, it is natural.

So, because ACT-UP uses the rainbow, religious groups should reconsider using the rainbow, because people may misinterpret what it means?  If some loony Koresh-ite were the leader of a nation and made genocide on his people (because we had a government that didn't want to intervene like FDR didn't) and he used the cross as his symbol, should Christians let the cross be as worthless as a positive symbol as the swastika? You can't let people steal your symbols.

I agree that it should be avoided, but when it happens it happens. I don't call blacks ns either. There is nothing wrong with the word, it just means black in latin, but it has gotten a certain meaning. I could also persevere in calling New York New Manhattan, b/c that's its original name, but you have to adapt to the way the world is, at least on some issues.

[Gustaf]

The way you talk about "blacks" voting stupidly, I guess. It's a little careless, perhaps, I myself did not react much but I can see how one definitely could. Maybe you should just think about it.

Exactly.

Hah! I'm a mind-reader!

When did I say blacks vote "stupidly"?

This could be interpreted that way, for example: "She got plenty of black votes.  Maybe they didn't know she was a nut because they didn't really follow the race, maybe they just vote Dem by reflex"

I am not accusing you of being racist, just that your language could be interpreted that way. Personally, I am not bothered by it, as I state above, since I am rather tolerant, but other people well could.

[Bleeding heart conservative, HTMLdon]

With all due respect to Gustaf, Realpolitik, and the other international folks here, and as much as I admire your knowledge of American politics which far exceeds my knowledge of Britain and Sweden, I think you'd have to live here in order to see things the way we see them.

Blacks DO vote Democrat by reflex.  That's not racist, that's just the statistics.  It's not a racial characteristic -- whites used to vote reflexively Democratic in the south and even more so than African-americans do today.  NHPolitico isn't trying to be racist at all, he's just stating what the facts are so that we can deal with them.

I was an election worker last year and an African-american lady came in and asked "where the button was" that she could vote all Democratic -- she didn't even want to spend the time to mark an x next to the candidates of her choice.  I had asked one of the election commission officials about the partisan makeup of the workers and she indicated that all I had to do was count the whites and blacks because she couldn't think of that many cases where you had a white Democrat or a black Republican election worker.

I've seen the black electorate here vote in droves for an admitted crack addict (D) while the white electorate was more than happy to cross racial and party lines vote for our well-respected black Democratic county Mayor.  And if you think the crack addict thing was just a white perception, let me burst your bubble... I was a guest on a black radio station talking about the election and the black host and black callers all said they couldn't believe that there was a crack addict on the ballot and surely wouldn't vote for him but did anyway.

However, like I said - its not in any a racial characteristic and whites used to do the same thing.  It sucks in either case.  It does send a big message to my party though:  Even with all of the outreach work that we have done, we are still no better than a crack addict to the average African-American voter.  We have to address this problem with more than just platitudes and token appointments... we must make serious policy changes and make our case more effectively that the Republican Party is the party that will help all Americans.

[NHPolitico]

The way you talk about "blacks" voting stupidly, I guess. It's a little careless, perhaps, I myself did not react much but I can see how one definitely could. Maybe you should just think about it.

Exactly.

Hah! I'm a mind-reader!

When did I say blacks vote "stupidly"?

This could be interpreted that way, for example: "She got plenty of black votes.  Maybe they didn't know she was a nut because they didn't really follow the race, maybe they just vote Dem by reflex"

I am not accusing you of being racist, just that your language could be interpreted that way. Personally, I am not bothered by it, as I state above, since I am rather tolerant, but other people well could.

Plenty of uninformed people vote of all races.  They aren't voting stupidly, just unwisely and without due diligence. Some don't even bother to wipe hanging chads off their ballots despite having been instructed to do so multiple ways.

[NHPolitico]

The way you talk about "blacks" voting stupidly, I guess. It's a little careless, perhaps, I myself did not react much but I can see how one definitely could. Maybe you should just think about it.

Exactly.

Hah! I'm a mind-reader!

When did I say blacks vote "stupidly"?

This could be interpreted that way, for example: "She got plenty of black votes.  Maybe they didn't know she was a nut because they didn't really follow the race, maybe they just vote Dem by reflex"

I am not accusing you of being racist, just that your language could be interpreted that way. Personally, I am not bothered by it, as I state above, since I am rather tolerant, but other people well could.

And what do you think could be the explanation, out of curiousity? Uninformed? Reflex? How do you come down?

[nclib]

It's the African American voter who votes more on party than ideology. They've done polling on things like vouchers and Social Security partial privatization. They do well with black voters-- until you tell them that those are "Republican" ideas.  

I have statistics that show that blacks are receptive to some Republican ideas, if you don't connect it to the party itself. I don't disagree with you, but if it's true that blacks vote on party moreso than ideology, why are most black congresspeople strongly liberal?

[Bleeding heart conservative, HTMLdon]

Um... my black congressman (Harold Ford Jr.) isn't liberal - he challenged ultra-liberal Nancy Pelosi for the Dem leadership.  Artur Davis and Denise Majette aren't liberal.  We'd gladly take any or all of them in the GOP.

[Gustaf]

With all due respect to Gustaf, Realpolitik, and the other international folks here, and as much as I admire your knowledge of American politics which far exceeds my knowledge of Britain and Sweden, I think you'd have to live here in order to see things the way we see them.

Blacks DO vote Democrat by reflex.  That's not racist, that's just the statistics.  It's not a racial characteristic -- whites used to vote reflexively Democratic in the south and even more so than African-americans do today.  NHPolitico isn't trying to be racist at all, he's just stating what the facts are so that we can deal with them.

I was an election worker last year and an African-american lady came in and asked "where the button was" that she could vote all Democratic -- she didn't even want to spend the time to mark an x next to the candidates of her choice.  I had asked one of the election commission officials about the partisan makeup of the workers and she indicated that all I had to do was count the whites and blacks because she couldn't think of that many cases where you had a white Democrat or a black Republican election worker.

I've seen the black electorate here vote in droves for an admitted crack addict (D) while the white electorate was more than happy to cross racial and party lines vote for our well-respected black Democratic county Mayor.  And if you think the crack addict thing was just a white perception, let me burst your bubble... I was a guest on a black radio station talking about the election and the black host and black callers all said they couldn't believe that there was a crack addict on the ballot and surely wouldn't vote for him but did anyway.

However, like I said - its not in any a racial characteristic and whites used to do the same thing.  It sucks in either case.  It does send a big message to my party though:  Even with all of the outreach work that we have done, we are still no better than a crack addict to the average African-American voter.  We have to address this problem with more than just platitudes and token appointments... we must make serious policy changes and make our case more effectively that the Republican Party is the party that will help all Americans.

OK, I will back down. For the record, I did NOT say that these were racist remarks. If you read my posts you will see that I did personally not get offensed. I was just trying to explain to NHP what RP was referring to, and suggesting that another way of putting it might avoid trouble. I have never claimed to be an expert on these subjects, and it might well be true that certain voters vote for parties out of reflex or tradition. If I could suggest something, I would think that black voters might vote as a function of the white racists around them, and since they vote Republican, the black voters go for the other candidate, an understandable reaction considering their history and environment.

[English]

With all due respect to Gustaf, Realpolitik, and the other international folks here, and as much as I admire your knowledge of American politics which far exceeds my knowledge of Britain and Sweden, I think you'd have to live here in order to see things the way we see them.

Blacks DO vote Democrat by reflex.  That's not racist, that's just the statistics.  It's not a racial characteristic -- whites used to vote reflexively Democratic in the south and even more so than African-americans do today.  NHPolitico isn't trying to be racist at all, he's just stating what the facts are so that we can deal with them.

I was an election worker last year and an African-american lady came in and asked "where the button was" that she could vote all Democratic -- she didn't even want to spend the time to mark an x next to the candidates of her choice.  I had asked one of the election commission officials about the partisan makeup of the workers and she indicated that all I had to do was count the whites and blacks because she couldn't think of that many cases where you had a white Democrat or a black Republican election worker.

I've seen the black electorate here vote in droves for an admitted crack addict (D) while the white electorate was more than happy to cross racial and party lines vote for our well-respected black Democratic county Mayor.  And if you think the crack addict thing was just a white perception, let me burst your bubble... I was a guest on a black radio station talking about the election and the black host and black callers all said they couldn't believe that there was a crack addict on the ballot and surely wouldn't vote for him but did anyway.

However, like I said - its not in any a racial characteristic and whites used to do the same thing.  It sucks in either case.  It does send a big message to my party though:  Even with all of the outreach work that we have done, we are still no better than a crack addict to the average African-American voter.  We have to address this problem with more than just platitudes and token appointments... we must make serious policy changes and make our case more effectively that the Republican Party is the party that will help all Americans.

I know exactly what you mean htmldon, this happens in Britain too. In some northern towns you could pin a red Labour rosette on a chimpanzee and it would still win!! A lot of ethnic minorities (and many whites) here vote according to ethnic/religious bigotry which is also disgusting. At the 1997 election Labour nearly lost the seat of Bradford West because the Labour candidate was a Sikh and 40% of the electorate are Muslim. Virtually all the Muslims voted Tory, just out of hatred for the Sikh candidate. Disgusting! Blacks in Britain also tend to vote Labour regardless of whether the candidate deserves to be elected or not. Personally I switch my vote Lab/Lib Dem/Green/Independent depending on policies. I've never voted Tory yet as I've never agreed with their policies, but that's not to say I would never vote for them in the future.

[Gustaf]

With all due respect to Gustaf, Realpolitik, and the other international folks here, and as much as I admire your knowledge of American politics which far exceeds my knowledge of Britain and Sweden, I think you'd have to live here in order to see things the way we see them.

Blacks DO vote Democrat by reflex.  That's not racist, that's just the statistics.  It's not a racial characteristic -- whites used to vote reflexively Democratic in the south and even more so than African-americans do today.  NHPolitico isn't trying to be racist at all, he's just stating what the facts are so that we can deal with them.

I was an election worker last year and an African-american lady came in and asked "where the button was" that she could vote all Democratic -- she didn't even want to spend the time to mark an x next to the candidates of her choice.  I had asked one of the election commission officials about the partisan makeup of the workers and she indicated that all I had to do was count the whites and blacks because she couldn't think of that many cases where you had a white Democrat or a black Republican election worker.

I've seen the black electorate here vote in droves for an admitted crack addict (D) while the white electorate was more than happy to cross racial and party lines vote for our well-respected black Democratic county Mayor.  And if you think the crack addict thing was just a white perception, let me burst your bubble... I was a guest on a black radio station talking about the election and the black host and black callers all said they couldn't believe that there was a crack addict on the ballot and surely wouldn't vote for him but did anyway.

However, like I said - its not in any a racial characteristic and whites used to do the same thing.  It sucks in either case.  It does send a big message to my party though:  Even with all of the outreach work that we have done, we are still no better than a crack addict to the average African-American voter.  We have to address this problem with more than just platitudes and token appointments... we must make serious policy changes and make our case more effectively that the Republican Party is the party that will help all Americans.

I know exactly what you mean htmldon, this happens in Britain too. In some northern towns you could pin a red Labour rosette on a chimpanzee and it would still win!! A lot of ethnic minorities (and many whites) here vote according to ethnic/religious bigotry which is also disgusting. At the 1997 election Labour nearly lost the seat of Bradford West because the Labour candidate was a Sikh and 40% of the electorate are Muslim. Virtually all the Muslims voted Tory, just out of hatred for the Sikh candidate. Disgusting! Blacks in Britain also tend to vote Labour regardless of whether the candidate deserves to be elected or not. Personally I switch my vote Lab/Lib Dem/Green/Independent depending on policies. I've never voted Tory yet as I've never agreed with their policies, but that's not to say I would never vote for them in the future.

Yes, in Sweden most immigrants vote for the left, the ex-communist socialists got more immigrant votes than the combined right-centre bloc, with the Labour party getting the rest.