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| | |-+  beasley vs. demint, sc runoff
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Author Topic: beasley vs. demint, sc runoff  (Read 7395 times)
WalterMitty
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« on: June 09, 2004, 02:26:07 pm »
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it looks like it will be beasley vs. demint in the sc runoff.

demint narrowly edged the best candidate in the race, thomas ravenel, for second place and the right to take on beasley in the runoff.

i guess ill have to support demint.  beasley was a bad governor and with his new committment to protectionism, he will be an even worse (if possible) senator.
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Fmr. Gov. NickG
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« Reply #1 on: June 09, 2004, 03:25:28 pm »
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Beasley looked surprisingly weak in the run-off, not even getting close to 40%.  And with Ravenel probably endorsing DeMint, I would say DeMint is a slight favorite.

I also think this becomes a pure toss-up general election if it's Tennenbaum-DeMint.
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Rococo4
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« Reply #2 on: June 09, 2004, 03:44:49 pm »
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I think DeMint has the better chance to hold the seat than Beasley, though both should win.
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« Reply #3 on: June 09, 2004, 06:38:31 pm »
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Tenenbaum would beat Beasley fairly handily.  A DeMint Tenenbaum race would be a true tossup though.
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« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2004, 06:46:41 pm »
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  Walter, you have to understand that support for "free" trade is a losing issue, that is one reason why Bush is not doing as well as he should against Kerry, and De Mints support for "free" Trade will hurt him among working class conservatives.

  I have no problem with some protectionism, because it is in many ways, a defense of the borders of the US, the likes of DeMint support the sending of jobs and technology to red China. My hope with a Bush loss, the "free" trade elemnets will exit the party.
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« Reply #5 on: June 09, 2004, 06:59:32 pm »
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I think both Beasley and DeMint would be great members of the Senate... but I respect Beasley more because he stood up and fought against the neo-confederates.  It would be a great irony, and a great day for this country, if David Beasley, the man who brought down the rebel flag from the Capitol, would replace Fritz Hollings, the Democrat who put the flag of treachery up there in the first place.
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« Reply #6 on: June 09, 2004, 08:39:25 pm »
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I think Beasley would definitely win...with DeMint it would be a good race, although DeMint would still win.  

Dammit...why did Fritz have to retire?  Sad
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WalterMitty
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« Reply #7 on: June 09, 2004, 09:17:28 pm »
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have yall ever noticed that fritz hollings comes across as a totally unfriendly guy?
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« Reply #8 on: June 10, 2004, 02:54:20 am »
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  Walter, you have to understand that support for "free" trade is a losing issue, that is one reason why Bush is not doing as well as he should against Kerry, and De Mints support for "free" Trade will hurt him among working class conservatives.

  I have no problem with some protectionism, because it is in many ways, a defense of the borders of the US, the likes of DeMint support the sending of jobs and technology to red China. My hope with a Bush loss, the "free" trade elemnets will exit the party.

Great, so the working class will be making $15 an hour labouring in some factory, instead of $10 an hour in some office or restaurant, and the net result is everything costs the consumer (me) twice as much.  

But while I find the economics disturbing, I have to admit protectionism tends to win over the simpler sort of voter.
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JNB
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« Reply #9 on: June 10, 2004, 09:56:50 am »
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 There is no free lunch. So far, mainly because Clinton was such a big supporter of "free" trade(not to mention his immigration policies led to a dramatic increse in illegal immigration), the opposition to "free" trade was muted.

   It comes down to this, people in the lower middle class are economically stressed, so far because of credit expansion and home re-fis, they have been able to reduce some of the pain, but these are short term. While the benifit to the top 20% of income earners of the US is clear, the benifit of free trade for most of the rest of the citizens in the US are far from clear, the vast majority of the savings in "free" trade line the pockets of the rich, they do not reduce costs to most of the consumers, yet it puts severe down ward pressue4 on wages.

  To the "conservatives" in here, as I said, go beyond talk radio and the WSJ op ed pages(yes its a broken record by so many parrot the propaganda from t hese sources) and look behind the economics numbers, also realize this, the current trads of jobs being exported and cheap labor being imported WILL result in the US becoming a European style welfare state, as enough economically displaced workers get fed UP.

  It is my estimate that the dual issues of uncontrolled immigration and "free" trade is costing Bush 5 to 10 points nationally.
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« Reply #10 on: June 10, 2004, 11:21:41 am »
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  Walter, you have to understand that support for "free" trade is a losing issue, that is one reason why Bush is not doing as well as he should against Kerry, and De Mints support for "free" Trade will hurt him among working class conservatives.

  I have no problem with some protectionism, because it is in many ways, a defense of the borders of the US, the likes of DeMint support the sending of jobs and technology to red China. My hope with a Bush loss, the "free" trade elemnets will exit the party.

Great, so the working class will be making $15 an hour labouring in some factory, instead of $10 an hour in some office or restaurant, and the net result is everything costs the consumer (me) twice as much.  

But while I find the economics disturbing, I have to admit protectionism tends to win over the simpler sort of voter.

The problem is that the supporters of free trade are usually the people most opposed to rectifying its bad effects.  

I am in favor of free trade if the government makes sure that the people who lose their jobs because of it are taken care of, through increased welfare and unemployment benefits, and a much higher minimum wage.  

If businesses and consumers benefit from free trade, they shouldn't mind paying a portion of this benefit (in the form of higher taxes) to compensate those who lose out from it.
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« Reply #11 on: June 10, 2004, 06:03:28 pm »
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have yall ever noticed that fritz hollings comes across as a totally unfriendly guy?

He is 81 or something
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« Reply #12 on: June 10, 2004, 11:24:44 pm »
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Beasely and DeMint are both very flawed candidates.

Beasely was a very unpopular governor who lost an election.
DeMint supports free trade. SC is a very protectionist state.

So it's tough to say who has the better chance, but Tenenbaum's chances are much better than any Democrat should have.
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« Reply #13 on: June 10, 2004, 11:54:37 pm »
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  It is my estimate that the dual issues of uncontrolled immigration and "free" trade is costing Bush 5 to 10 points nationally.

I'm sure you're right, though I'd agree with the 5 points, not ten.  But if he can win with 50% of the vote and still back Capitalism - which is essentially the philosophy of the GOP - rather than compromising it, then why go for the extra five points?
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« Reply #14 on: June 11, 2004, 01:38:56 am »
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because he can win 50% and not 270 votes.
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WalterMitty
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« Reply #15 on: June 11, 2004, 10:23:02 am »
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have yall ever noticed that fritz hollings comes across as a totally unfriendly guy?

He is 81 or something

yes, but he was nasty and mean even when he was a youthful segregationist.
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JNB
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« Reply #16 on: June 11, 2004, 10:51:45 am »
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   The way "free" trade is current conducted is not sustainable, and harmful to Capitalism long term. Bush is sticking to his strong support for "free" tarde, ashame he didnt learn anything from his fathers re election effort in 92.

  As for Inez Tenenbaum, she has yet to be defined in the race. So far, the polls have indicated that Beasley would be the strongest canidate against her, though no matter who wins the GOP primary, the GOP nature of SC is though for any Democrat to win in.
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MHS2002
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« Reply #17 on: June 16, 2004, 04:27:42 pm »
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http://surveyusa.com/2004_Elections/SC040615gopsenrunoff.pdf

Latest SUSA poll regarding the runoff - looks to be a close race.
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nclib
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« Reply #18 on: June 16, 2004, 04:43:06 pm »
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Which candidate is more moderate?
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« Reply #19 on: June 17, 2004, 12:20:16 am »
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have yall ever noticed that fritz hollings comes across as a totally unfriendly guy?

He is 81 or something

yes, but he was nasty and mean even when he was a youthful segregationist.

when he was the lawyer for Brown in the case of Brown v Board of Ed at age 31?
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"As for me, I'd rather live in a free country than a 'fair' one." --David Harsanyi

"What passes for optimism is most often the effect of an intellectual error." --Raymond Claud Ferdinan Aron

"The world is a rough and nasty place. Absent a change in human nature, it will remain so." --Robert M. Gates
WalterMitty
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« Reply #20 on: June 17, 2004, 03:39:19 pm »
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no, when he was governor and blacks couldnt so much as use the same water fountain as whites.
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tweed
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« Reply #21 on: June 17, 2004, 06:28:01 pm »
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Which candidate is more moderate?

Beasley I gather...can't be sure though
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tweed
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« Reply #22 on: June 17, 2004, 06:29:45 pm »
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OK--

DeMint is pretty conservative...Economic 91% Social 75% Foreign 72%.  He gets a 100 from the ACU and the CHC.

I don't know enough about Bealsey.
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Keystone Phil
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« Reply #23 on: June 17, 2004, 06:44:46 pm »
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DeMint is conservative and I hope he wins. However, in a recent SC Senate poll it showed Moderates prefer DeMint while conservatives want Beasley.
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WalterMitty
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« Reply #24 on: June 17, 2004, 08:16:32 pm »
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id opt for the capitalist (i.e. demint)
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