Issue '04: Gun Control

[A18]

I think those are all six major party candidates...

[John Dibble]

Badnarik: "Gun control means being able to hit your target"

[The Vorlon]

"An armed population is the ultimate guarantee against tyrany"

Thomas Jefferson

[John Dibble]

I don't believe there is any difference between Badnarik and Peroutka on this issue. They both favor a literal interpretation of the Constitution and totally oppose gun control.

You're right about that. I just like the way Badnarik talks about it better.

[A18]

Voted Badnarik. Full automatics probably should have to be licensed, though.

Bush says he'll sign a bill renewing the federal assault weapons ban if Congress sends it to him, which they won't. But the assault weapons ban is useless--all it does is ban specific guns that you could get almost the exact same thing legally. It's just guns that look 'scary,' and that's the sad truth.

[Lunar]

Voted Badnarik.

I support measures to make guns more safe, but I don't feel it is a healthy attitude for the federal government to control what I can and can't have in my house, as long as those items don't infringe on other's rights.

[John Dibble]

Voted Badnarik. Full automatics probably should have to be licensed, though.

I'm fine with people owning full automatics. Our screening process is too high standard at the moment. The only restriction on such weapons I'd support is that they should be kept at home under normal circumstances - such weapons are really only needed if the government needs to be overthrown or if we are invaded by a foreign power.

[A18]

^ That's what I mean. You should be allowed to own them, but not carry them around without a license.

EDIT: In particular, it's stupid out in the country, like where I live. I can see houses, but they're nowhere near me at all. I could see in a city maybe...

[Fmr. Gov. NickG]

This issue is depressing...I can't find Nader's or Cobb's position on gun control, and I don't believe Kerry has the guts to call for any real progress.  I guess I would vote for Kerry on the issue anyway.

[Nym90]

My position on gun control is that if a gun has no legitimate hunting, sporting, or self-defense purpose, it shouldn't be legal. If a gun's only real purpose is to be good at killing people, it shouldn't be made available to the public.

I also don't see why registering all guns would be that big of a deal; we already register all cars.

I realize the argument against both of these would be the possibility of a tyrranical government. If we need to overthrow the government by force, we need fully automatic weapons, and they can't be registered or else the government will come and take them away.

Well, I just don't see that as a legitimate threat that is going to occur anytime soon; the possibility is so remote that it doesn't outweigh the benefits that these changes would bring in reducing crime and making it easier to track criminals.

Plus, if you really want to be able to defend yourself from the government, you'd need tanks and nuclear weapons; the government will always have better weaponry than you, and I don't think many people advocate making tanks or nuclear bombs legal (even though they are arms, and thus any strict interpretation of a right to bear arms would, I would think, include these as well).

[A18]

Show me a man without a gun and I'll show you a man who's a slave to government.

[raggage]

On this issue of self-protection, what on earth do you think that I am employed for. Individual citizens do not need guns to protect themselves in ALMOST ALL cases. Thats what the Police and other law enforcement organisations are here for.

I personally carry a firearm at work (obviously), but I can honestly say that I have never and will never bring a firearm inside my house.

Non-sporting gun ownership in this country is the bain of my existence.

[struct310]

I like this Badnarik guy.

[CARLHAYDEN]

On this issue of self-protection, what on earth do you think that I am employed for. Individual citizens do not need guns to protect themselves in ALMOST ALL cases. Thats what the Police and other law enforcement organisations are here for.

I personally carry a firearm at work (obviously), but I can honestly say that I have never and will never bring a firearm inside my house.

Non-sporting gun ownership in this country is the bain of my existence.

First, I do NOT believe your allegation of being "employed" in law enforcement.

Second, as the courts have repeatedly pointed out, the purpose of law enforcement personnel is the enfoce laws, NOT to protect citizens.

Third, I have yet to see you post anything "honestly."

[AuH2O]

I don't believe him either.

[Nym90]

I don't believe him either.

Either provide evidence that he's lying, or kindly shut up. Just because he doesn't take the position on this issue that you and CarlHayden think that a cop should take doesn't prove anything.

I would expect such behavior from a troll, but not you two.

[John Dibble]

On this issue of self-protection, what on earth do you think that I am employed for. Individual citizens do not need guns to protect themselves in ALMOST ALL cases. Thats what the Police and other law enforcement organisations are here for.

I personally carry a firearm at work (obviously), but I can honestly say that I have never and will never bring a firearm inside my house.

Non-sporting gun ownership in this country is the bain of my existence.

Right. So I'm supposed to either hope that you'll show up immediately if a criminal attacks me, because we all know criminals attack when there's cops around, or hope he doesn't kill me in the time it takes you to get there if I'm lucky enough to have the time to call you? Yeah right. You won't be there at the time I get attacked, so why the hell shouldn't I have the means with which to defend myself? Glad we have people with such foresight protecting us...

[CARLHAYDEN]

I don't believe him either.

Either provide evidence that he's lying, or kindly shut up. Just because he doesn't take the position on this issue that you and CarlHayden think that a cop should take doesn't prove anything.

I would expect such behavior from a troll, but not you two.

I realize you believe that telling people to "shut up" and calling others who disagree with you 'trolls' is your method of communication, but, you ignored the key element in my post which every law enforcement officer is taught, namely, that legally, the purpose of law enforcement if to enforce the laws, NOT protect the citizens.

The courts have repeatedly made this point, and all law enforcement personell are aware of it.

[Nym90]

I don't believe him either.

Either provide evidence that he's lying, or kindly shut up. Just because he doesn't take the position on this issue that you and CarlHayden think that a cop should take doesn't prove anything.

I would expect such behavior from a troll, but not you two.

I realize you believe that telling people to "shut up" and calling others who disagree with you 'trolls' is your method of communication, but, you ignored the key element in my post which every law enforcement officer is taught, namely, that legally, the purpose of law enforcement if to enforce the laws, NOT protect the citizens.

The courts have repeatedly made this point, and all law enforcement personell are aware of it.

I didn't call you a troll; in fact, I did the exact opposite. I said that I would expect such behavior from a troll, but not from you two, clearly implying that you were not included as trolls. You aren't trolls, which is why I find it even worse that you would stoop to such tactics.

Ok, I see your point, but I still don't see how that proves that Raggage is lying. His view doesn't agree with what he was taught, but I'm sure there are plenty of cops who think that way.

Accusing people of being liars does nothing to help the level of discourse on this forum. Attack the ideas, not the person.

[King]

Bush

[CARLHAYDEN]

I don't believe him either.

Either provide evidence that he's lying, or kindly shut up. Just because he doesn't take the position on this issue that you and CarlHayden think that a cop should take doesn't prove anything.

I would expect such behavior from a troll, but not you two.

I realize you believe that telling people to "shut up" and calling others who disagree with you 'trolls' is your method of communication, but, you ignored the key element in my post which every law enforcement officer is taught, namely, that legally, the purpose of law enforcement if to enforce the laws, NOT protect the citizens.

The courts have repeatedly made this point, and all law enforcement personell are aware of it.

I didn't call you a troll; in fact, I did the exact opposite. I said that I would expect such behavior from a troll, but not from you two, clearly implying that you were not included as trolls. You aren't trolls, which is why I find it even worse that you would stoop to such tactics.

Ok, I see your point, but I still don't see how that proves that Raggage is lying. His view doesn't agree with what he was taught, but I'm sure there are plenty of cops who think that way.

Accusing people of being liars does nothing to help the level of discourse on this forum. Attack the ideas, not the person.

First, Raggae has alledged that his supposed employement gives him 'credibility' on law enforcement matters.

Second, I have known a number of people in law enforcement in California, including several of the investigators in the Tate-LaBianca murders.  Raggae's claims smell, and I'm calling him on those claims as they constitute the basis for his law enforcement allegations.

Third, if Raggae has logical and factual basis for his arguments, let him make them (he had NOT).

Finally, law enforcement personnel in my experience are encouraged (in some departments required) to have access to an approved firearm while off duty.  So, Raggae's claim he will not carry a firearm into his own home is yet another claim which contradicts his claims.

[Seawolf]

Voted Badnarik..

[CARLHAYDEN]

My stepdaughter's neighber is a cop.

My godson's grandfather is a cop.

I used to shoot competetively with a couple of cops (both were ex gunnies).

I know cops, and raggae isn't one.

[they don't love you like i love you]

I would expect such behavior from a troll, but not you two.

that statement kind of contradicts itself...

[© tweed]

Cultural issues make more of an impact in non-incumbent elections.