Research 2000 poll: Only 42% of Republicans believe Obama was born in the US

[Landslide Lyndon]

IHe's something different, something un-American, something alien, therefore maybe even something dangerous.

I think the similarities are obvious:

[minionofmidas]

RED NECK PILE ON!

Incest and bad teeth

The Country Club set isn't any different in that respect...

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Public Policy Polling didn't believe this number, so they added a birther question to their poll of Virginia, and well...

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http://twitter.com/ppppolls

So then probaby a good majority of McCain voters in Virginia are Birthers then.

[CJK]

Public Policy Polling didn't believe this number, so they added a birther question to their poll of Virginia, and well...

You must be logged in to read this quote.

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http://twitter.com/ppppolls

So then probaby a good majority of McCain voters in Virginia are Birthers then.

Only 39% of Democrats thought that Bush did not know about 9/11 in advance, so probably a good majority of Obama voters were truthers.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/bush_administration/22_believe_bush_knew_about_9_11_attacks_in_advance

[Ban my account ffs!]

Public Policy Polling didn't believe this number, so they added a birther question to their poll of Virginia, and well...

You must be logged in to read this quote.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

http://twitter.com/ppppolls

So then probaby a good majority of McCain voters in Virginia are Birthers then.

Only 39% of Democrats thought that Bush did not know about 9/11 in advance, so probably a good majority of Obama voters were truthers.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/bush_administration/22_believe_bush_knew_about_9_11_attacks_in_advance

lol... hardly.

Here the question was "DO you believe Bush knew of the attacks prior to 9/11"... that does not equal "Do you believe the 9/11 attacks were a conspiracy by the government which George W. Bush had the knowledge of?" which is what identifying Truthers would involve.  I can guarantee those numbers would be much lower.

In this case it is overwhelmingly southern Republicans that have skewed the results.  It looks if you were to just count the southern REpublicans, they would overwhelmingly say Obama was not born in the U.S.  Therefore it is safe to argue that a majority of McCain voters in Virginia were Birthers.

On the other hand, Democrats and a healthy majority of Independents nationwide supported Obama.. and it is clear that a smaller minority believe in the 9/11 question... so it would be ridiculous to assume that Obama voters were Truthers nationwide.

And quit with the red herring arguments.  If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen.

[CJK]

lol... hardly.

Here the question was "DO you believe Bush knew of the attacks prior to 9/11"... that does not equal "Do you believe the 9/11 attacks were a conspiracy by the government which George W. Bush had the knowledge of?" which is what identifying Truthers would involve.  I can guarantee those numbers would be much lower.

The question was whether or not Bush knew about the 9/11 attacks in advance, which is a form of trutherism since it implies complicity. But even if didn't imply complicity, does it matter? This poll didn't say "Do you believe that Barack Obama is constitutionally ineligible to be president because he was not born in the United States and is engaging in a massive cover-up?"

In this case it is overwhelmingly southern Republicans that have skewed the results.  It looks if you were to just count the southern REpublicans, they would overwhelmingly say Obama was not born in the U.S.  Therefore it is safe to argue that a majority of McCain voters in Virginia were Birthers.

It's pretty much safe to say that the Kos poll is garbage. We're supposed to believe that there is a 40 point difference in views between the north and the south over Obama's birth? Give me a break. And besides, it's absurd to lump in "don't know" with the birthers.

On the other hand, Democrats and a healthy majority of Independents nationwide supported Obama.. and it is clear that a smaller minority believe in the 9/11 question... so it would be ridiculous to assume that Obama voters were Truthers nationwide.

Since no poll of either side's supporters was ever taken, we can't make any definitive statement as to what Obama voters believed.

And quit with the red herring arguments.  If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen.

Not sure what you're talking about.

[ilikeverin]

lol... hardly.

Here the question was "DO you believe Bush knew of the attacks prior to 9/11"... that does not equal "Do you believe the 9/11 attacks were a conspiracy by the government which George W. Bush had the knowledge of?" which is what identifying Truthers would involve.  I can guarantee those numbers would be much lower.

The question was whether or not Bush knew about the 9/11 attacks in advance, which is a form of trutherism since it implies complicity. But even if didn't imply complicity, does it matter? This poll didn't say "Do you believe that Barack Obama is constitutionally ineligible to be president because he was not born in the United States and is engaging in a massive cover-up?"

Not quite.  The "do you believe George W. Bush knew about the 9/11 attacks before they happened?" thing also includes responses like "yes, I believe George W. Bush knew an attack was imminent" and "yes, I believe George W. Bush had intelligence that suggested a terrorist attack was going to occur sometime in the fall of 2001".  Knowledge isn't a dichotomy; there are far too many nuances about it to make a good poll question, without seeing how exactly the question was phrased.

Meanwhile, it's hard to imagine a very nuanced "no" result to a question where the answer is much more dichotomous; it's not like Barack Obama could've "kinda" been born in America.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Most of the Democrats probably were thinking of the ignored "Bin Laden determined to strike US" memo that Bush kept ignoring.

[Lunar]

Most of the Democrats probably were thinking of the ignored "Bin Laden determined to strike US" memo that Bush kept ignoring.

probably not.

I think these types of poll questions make it desirable for people to respond like this.  Like, I don't know, what if you said "Do you think Bill Clinton was probably wearing a wig, in retrospect" in a poll, it'd make people more likely to say yes.


but the GOP has got to figure out what to do with these loons.  I applaud Obama's decision, tactically, to not release the "long form" outside of letting the people at Factcheck.org photograph it and whatnot.

[cinyc]

Not that I'm aware of. I think Research 2000 is actually a republican leaning pollster.

Incorrect.  Research 2000 is an independent polling firm that has been hired by a bunch of media organizations over the years, but has been doing a lot of recent work for Daily Kos, which is the furthest thing possible from a Republican-leaning website.

[cinyc]

Most of the Democrats probably were thinking of the ignored "Bin Laden determined to strike US" memo that Bush kept ignoring.

probably not.

I think these types of poll questions make it desirable for people to respond like this.  Like, I don't know, what if you said "Do you think Bill Clinton was probably wearing a wig, in retrospect" in a poll, it'd make people more likely to say yes.


but the GOP has got to figure out what to do with these loons.  I applaud Obama's decision, tactically, to not release the "long form" outside of letting the people at Factcheck.org photograph it and whatnot.

The people at Factcheck.org did not photograph Obama's long-form birth certificate.  They photographed the original of the 2007-obtained short-form Certification of Live Birth that is available elsewhere on the Internet.  There's enough information on that short form certificate to get a U.S. passport, so you think it would suffice as evidence of his Hawaiian birth to most rational people.

The head loon pushing the birther story is a Democrat lawyer from Pennsylvania who supported Hillary Clinton.   Maybe the Democrats should figure out what to do with him.

[Landslide Lyndon]

The head loon pushing the birther story is a Democrat lawyer from Pennsylvania who supported Hillary Clinton.   Maybe the Democrats should figure out what to do with him.

Actually the head loons appear to be Alan Keyes and that dentist/lawyer/real estate agent from Russia, Orly Taitz.
They are the ones that keep harassing GOP lawmakers and newspeople to "uncover the conspiracy" and threaten them with "serious consequences" if they fail to do so.

[cinyc]

The head loon pushing the birther story is a Democrat lawyer from Pennsylvania who supported Hillary Clinton.   Maybe the Democrats should figure out what to do with him.

Actually the head loons appear to be Alan Keyes and that dentist/lawyer/real estate agent from Russia, Orly Taitz.
They are the ones that keep harassing GOP lawmakers and newspeople to "uncover the conspiracy" and threaten them with "serious consequences" if they fail to do so.

The person who brought the first lawsuits on the subject and is still chugging along in his belief that Obama was born in Kenya/Canada/Wherever is Philip Berg, a Hillary Clinton-supporting Pennsylvania lawyer who was former chair of the Democratic Party in Montgomery County, Pennsylvania.

You would have thought that had Obama not been born in Hawaii, the Clinton campaign would have used it against him in the primaries.  I just don't get why Obama doesn't simply have Hawaii release the long-form birth certificate to put an end to this nonsense once and for all.  It seems to be part of a pattern where the head of the self-proclaimed most open administration in history refuses to release the most basic of personal information, including his college and law school transcripts. 

[Landslide Lyndon]

The head loon pushing the birther story is a Democrat lawyer from Pennsylvania who supported Hillary Clinton.   Maybe the Democrats should figure out what to do with him.

Actually the head loons appear to be Alan Keyes and that dentist/lawyer/real estate agent from Russia, Orly Taitz.
They are the ones that keep harassing GOP lawmakers and newspeople to "uncover the conspiracy" and threaten them with "serious consequences" if they fail to do so.

The person who brought the first lawsuits on the subject and is still chugging along in his belief that Obama was born in Kenya/Canada/Wherever is Philip Berg, a Hillary Clinton-supporting Pennsylvania lawyer who was former chair of the Democratic Party in Montgomery County, Pennsylvania.

You would have thought that had Obama not been born in Hawaii, the Clinton campaign would have used it against him in the primaries.  I just don't get why Obama doesn't simply have Hawaii release the long-form birth certificate to put an end to this nonsense once and for all.  It seems to be part of a pattern where the head of the self-proclaimed most open administration in history refuses to release the most basic of personal information, including his college and law school transcripts. 

https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=99499.msg2089946#msg2089946

[minionofmidas]

Hawai'i doesn't do multiple different forms of birth certificates. It only does the type with all the currently legally relevant info but without all the other stuff that used to get put on them a long time ago.

This is not to say that it would be illegal to release it (not sure about that, actually), just that there is no established procedure to do so. And thus, that exceptions would have to be made. And thus, that the conspiracy theorists would just be provided with new additional fodder.

[Middle-aged Europe]

Public Policy Polling didn't believe this number, so they added a birther question to their poll of Virginia, and well...

You must be logged in to read this quote.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

http://twitter.com/ppppolls

So then probaby a good majority of McCain voters in Virginia are Birthers then.

Only 39% of Democrats thought that Bush did not know about 9/11 in advance, so probably a good majority of Obama voters were truthers.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/bush_administration/22_believe_bush_knew_about_9_11_attacks_in_advance

Is this supposed to be a "two wrongs make a right" argument?

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

The head loon pushing the birther story is a Democrat lawyer from Pennsylvania who supported Hillary Clinton.   Maybe the Democrats should figure out what to do with him.

Actually the head loons appear to be Alan Keyes and that dentist/lawyer/real estate agent from Russia, Orly Taitz.
They are the ones that keep harassing GOP lawmakers and newspeople to "uncover the conspiracy" and threaten them with "serious consequences" if they fail to do so.

The person who brought the first lawsuits on the subject and is still chugging along in his belief that Obama was born in Kenya/Canada/Wherever is Philip Berg, a Hillary Clinton-supporting Pennsylvania lawyer who was former chair of the Democratic Party in Montgomery County, Pennsylvania.

You would have thought that had Obama not been born in Hawaii, the Clinton campaign would have used it against him in the primaries.  I just don't get why Obama doesn't simply have Hawaii release the long-form birth certificate to put an end to this nonsense once and for all.  It seems to be part of a pattern where the head of the self-proclaimed most open administration in history refuses to release the most basic of personal information, including his college and law school transcripts. 

Maybe he just doesn't care to make it end.  If I were him, I'd be kinda amused by people wasting their time and stupid stuff like this.  It's basically free entertainment for him.

[cinyc]

https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=99499.msg2089946#msg2089946

The information at your link is wrong.  Hawaii did not throw out old paper long-form birth certificates when they went electronic.   It's still in their archives.  And it's a state record about Obama, so Obama should be entitled to it, even if he has to file a FOIA-like request to get it instead of a simple birth certificate request.  If Obama wanted to get it, he could.  But he doesn't - he'd rather have these morons spouting nonsense than shut them up once and for all, or there's something on the long-form certificate that he'd rather not have us see.

One Hawaii Democrat legislator wants to open up all birth records to the general public (uncertified, of course).  We'll see how far his bill goes.  I'm not sure that's such a good idea, with the possibility of identity theft.

[dead0man]

Public Policy Polling didn't believe this number, so they added a birther question to their poll of Virginia, and well...

You must be logged in to read this quote.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

http://twitter.com/ppppolls

So then probaby a good majority of McCain voters in Virginia are Birthers then.

Only 39% of Democrats thought that Bush did not know about 9/11 in advance, so probably a good majority of Obama voters were truthers.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/bush_administration/22_believe_bush_knew_about_9_11_attacks_in_advance

Is this supposed to be a "two wrongs make a right" argument?

Exactly.  It should be a shock to no one that both Republicans and Dems have more than there fair share of idiots and halfwits.  They do keep voting for the "lesser of two evils" after all, you have to be a half wit sheep to think that way.

[The Vorlon]

Not that I'm aware of. I think Research 2000 is actually a republican leaning pollster.

Incorrect.  Research 2000 is an independent polling firm that has been hired by a bunch of media organizations over the years, but has been doing a lot of recent work for Daily Kos, which is the furthest thing possible from a Republican-leaning website.

For the record, Del Ali, the lead guy at R2K is a decent pollster, with long standing democratic roots.  A mild lean to the Democratic side.

DailyKOS, is, well DailyKOS

[Person Man]

Yeah, but at least 9/11 conspiracists didn't have a cool name like "birthers"...or given their reigon and party... "succesionists". Just ask Rick.