Top Ten Presidents

[nhmagic]

1. Abraham Lincoln (R)
2. George Washington (F, would be an R if living today)
3. John Adams (F, but by today's standards would be an R)
4. Ronald Reagan (R)
5. Harry Truman (D)
6. John Kennedy (D) - for the moon push at least and first tax cuts in awhile
7. Calvin Coolidge (R)
8. Thomas Jefferson (D) - I hate some of the stuff he did though
9. George W. Bush (R) - can we count the first 5 years
10. Bill Clinton (D)

Intresting list. Be prepared for a Democratic barrage of insults.

I dont know why he would be insulted since he picked as many Ds as he did Rs  and in my opinion his first three and his 10th pick were very good and 5 and 6 are ok. So mostly a decent list.    9 is a bizarre choice and it doesnt make sense to me that he would pick 8 and then say he hates what he did.   

8. Some of the things he did and his lifestyle infuriates me.  There were huge things that he did for this country and he deserves recognition for those things.
9. Isn't so bizarre if you believe that Bush did great things (the tax cuts, 9/11 response, additionally Roberts and Alito (though those two didn't happen until the later years).  The reason why I cite the first five is because amnesty, medicare reform and Harriet Miers came after that.

[Alexander Hamilton]

1. Abraham Lincoln (R)
2. George Washington (F, would be an R if living today)
3. John Adams (F, but by today's standards would be an R)
4. Ronald Reagan (R)
5. Harry Truman (D)
6. John Kennedy (D) - for the moon push at least and first tax cuts in awhile
7. Calvin Coolidge (R)
8. Thomas Jefferson (D) - I hate some of the stuff he did though
9. George W. Bush (R) - can we count the first 5 years
10. Bill Clinton (D)

Intresting list. Be prepared for a Democratic barrage of insults.

I dont know why he would be insulted since he picked as many Ds as he did Rs  and in my opinion his first three and his 10th pick were very good and 5 and 6 are ok. So mostly a decent list.    9 is a bizarre choice and it doesnt make sense to me that he would pick 8 and then say he hates what he did.   

8. Some of the things he did and his lifestyle infuriates me.  There were huge things that he did for this country and he deserves recognition for those things.
9. Isn't so bizarre if you believe that Bush did great things (the tax cuts, 9/11 response, additionally Roberts and Alito (though those two didn't happen until the later years).  The reason why I cite the first five is because amnesty, medicare reform and Harriet Miers came after that.

I think you're right that Bush presidency is dragged down a lot by the post-Katrina period. IDK if that's enough to make top 9 however, but then again, Jefferson was awful as well.

[Хahar 🤔]

Bush did great things (9/11 response).

Does not compute.

[nhmagic]

1. Abraham Lincoln (R)
2. George Washington (F, would be an R if living today)
3. John Adams (F, but by today's standards would be an R)
4. Ronald Reagan (R)
5. Harry Truman (D)
6. John Kennedy (D) - for the moon push at least and first tax cuts in awhile
7. Calvin Coolidge (R)
8. Thomas Jefferson (D) - I hate some of the stuff he did though
9. George W. Bush (R) - can we count the first 5 years
10. Bill Clinton (D)

Intresting list. Be prepared for a Democratic barrage of insults.

I dont know why he would be insulted since he picked as many Ds as he did Rs  and in my opinion his first three and his 10th pick were very good and 5 and 6 are ok. So mostly a decent list.    9 is a bizarre choice and it doesnt make sense to me that he would pick 8 and then say he hates what he did.   

8. Some of the things he did and his lifestyle infuriates me.  There were huge things that he did for this country and he deserves recognition for those things.
9. Isn't so bizarre if you believe that Bush did great things (the tax cuts, 9/11 response, additionally Roberts and Alito (though those two didn't happen until the later years).  The reason why I cite the first five is because amnesty, medicare reform and Harriet Miers came after that.

I think you're right that Bush presidency is dragged down a lot by the post-Katrina period. IDK if that's enough to make top 9 however, but then again, Jefferson was awful as well.

Yeah, I was thinking about the historical significance in our security shift - where we went from proactive and reactive.  The strength of the Bush doctrine has endured as well because Obama clearly has not dismantled several aspects of it (as of now...)

[Alexander Hamilton]

1. Abraham Lincoln (R)
2. George Washington (F, would be an R if living today)
3. John Adams (F, but by today's standards would be an R)
4. Ronald Reagan (R)
5. Harry Truman (D)
6. John Kennedy (D) - for the moon push at least and first tax cuts in awhile
7. Calvin Coolidge (R)
8. Thomas Jefferson (D) - I hate some of the stuff he did though
9. George W. Bush (R) - can we count the first 5 years
10. Bill Clinton (D)

Intresting list. Be prepared for a Democratic barrage of insults.

I dont know why he would be insulted since he picked as many Ds as he did Rs  and in my opinion his first three and his 10th pick were very good and 5 and 6 are ok. So mostly a decent list.    9 is a bizarre choice and it doesnt make sense to me that he would pick 8 and then say he hates what he did.   

8. Some of the things he did and his lifestyle infuriates me.  There were huge things that he did for this country and he deserves recognition for those things.
9. Isn't so bizarre if you believe that Bush did great things (the tax cuts, 9/11 response, additionally Roberts and Alito (though those two didn't happen until the later years).  The reason why I cite the first five is because amnesty, medicare reform and Harriet Miers came after that.

I think you're right that Bush presidency is dragged down a lot by the post-Katrina period. IDK if that's enough to make top 9 however, but then again, Jefferson was awful as well.

Yeah, I was thinking about the historical significance in our security shift - where we went from proactive and reactive.  The strength of the Bush doctrine has endured as well because Obama clearly has not dismantled several aspects of it (as of now...)

Obama seems to have embraced it.

[WillK]

9. Isn't so bizarre if you believe that Bush did great things (the tax cuts, 9/11 response, additionally Roberts and Alito (though those two didn't happen until the later years).  The reason why I cite the first five is because amnesty, medicare reform and Harriet Miers came after that.

Since I dont see any great things that he did, its bizarre to me. 

But even trying to look at it from your point of view, you are saying that 40% of his presidency should be ignored so that the other 60% qualifies him as a top president.

[RScannix]

The comparison of presidents from different eras is highly problematic due to the different social, political and economic climates in which they've had to operate. Having said that....

1.  Abraham Lincoln
2.  Teddy Roosevelt
3.  George Washington
4.  Harry Truman
5.  Dwight Eisenhower
6.  Grover Cleveland
7.  James Madison
8.  John F. Kennedy
9.  Bill Clinton (The last three are pretty much interchangeable for me.)
10. Franklin Roosevelt


(I'm very mixed on FDR. I don't like his economic interventionism, nor his heavy-handed use of executive power, his attempt to stack the Supreme Court and his internment of citizens of Japanese descent. However, he did "save captialism," meaning that if it weren't for his actions, the country probably would have turned closer to fascism or socialism. Plus he handled WWII well. I felt that for those last two reasons he had to go in the top 10, so I equivocated and stuck him on the tail end.)

[k-onmmunist]

Top Ten? Bleh...

1. George Washington
2. Grover Cleveland
3. Abraham Lincoln
4. Calvin Coolidge
5. Andrew Jackson

Those are the greatest ones.

[RScannix]

Top Ten? Bleh...

1. George Washington
2. Grover Cleveland
3. Abraham Lincoln
4. Calvin Coolidge
5. Andrew Jackson

Those are the greatest ones.

Can't say I agree with Jackson. Indian Removal is enough for me to vote no. Plus, I think he went too far with the Bank and hard currency reforms, helping usher in that little panic in 1837.

[nhmagic]

9. Isn't so bizarre if you believe that Bush did great things (the tax cuts, 9/11 response, additionally Roberts and Alito (though those two didn't happen until the later years).  The reason why I cite the first five is because amnesty, medicare reform and Harriet Miers came after that.

Since I dont see any great things that he did, its bizarre to me. 

But even trying to look at it from your point of view, you are saying that 40% of his presidency should be ignored so that the other 60% qualifies him as a top president.

Yes, because part of my measurement is looking at enduring policy positions and the Bush foreign policy has and will continue to dominate the foreign policy arena for years to come.  Obama has basically adopted nearly every plank (with the grandstanding to appease his supporters).  And if both parties can accept it as they do - it either means that the ideologues believe its right or necessary and is in someway beneficial to this nation.

[Psychic Octopus]

1. George Washington
2. Abraham Lincoln
3. Ronald Reagan
4.Theodore Roosevelt
5. Thomas Jefferson
6. Harry S. Truman
7. Andrew Jackson
8. James K. Polk
9. Calvin Coolidge
10. Grover Cleaveland

Structured on my beliefs, In all acuality, I don't base on my beliefs but  on the competence of those I rate. My previous list is based on competence.

[WillK]

Yes, because part of my measurement is looking at enduring policy positions
[/quote]
This is a change from your previously stated positions which was to only look at the first 5 years of Bush's presidency, and ignore the last 3.

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Sad but true.

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I dont agree there.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

1)  Ronald Reagan
2)  George Washington
3)  Abraham Lincoln
4)  Andrew Jackson
5)  Theodore Roosevelt
6)  Harry S Truman
7)  Richard Nixon
8 )  Eisenhower
9)  FDR
10)Jefferson

[Alexander Hamilton]

Yes, because part of my measurement is looking at enduring policy positions

This is a change from your previously stated positions which was to only look at the first 5 years of Bush's presidency, and ignore the last 3.

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Sad but true.

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I dont agree there.
[/quote]

How could you disagree on a fact? Wth

[WillK]

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I dont agree there.

How could you disagree on a fact? Wth
[/quote]
I dont disagree on a fact.
I disagree on an opinion.

[Alexander Hamilton]

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I dont agree there.

How could you disagree on a fact? Wth

I dont disagree on a fact.
I disagree on an opinion.
[/quote]

No, Obama has adopted most of Bush's foreign policy strategies, including even his Sec. of Defense. This is indisputable.

[Psychic Octopus]

Hamilton's right. Obama is basically a more charismatic Bush. Obame turned his back on almost all of his campaign promises, and just continued Bush's work. His foriegn policy is more or less the same route Bush took during his last two years in office. Just Obama didn't do anything that alienated the international community, so he is loved. As for the economy, they've basically done the same thing. 

[rebeltarian]

1   Ronald Reagan
2   Thomas Jefferson
3   Calvin Coolidge
4   Andrew Jackson
5   George Washington
6   Grover Cleveland
7   James Madison
8   Martin Van Buren
9   Dwight Eisenhower
10 James K. Polk

And my top 5 worst, just for fun...

1  Woodrow Wilson
2  Lyndon Johnson
3  Abrahan Lincoln
4  Jimmy Carter
5  George W. Bush

[Alexander Hamilton]

1   Ronald Reagan
2   Thomas Jefferson
3   Calvin Coolidge
4   Andrew Jackson
5   George Washington
6   Grover Cleveland
7   James Madison
8   Martin Van Buren
9   Dwight Eisenhower
10 James K. Polk

And my top 5 worst, just for fun...

1  Woodrow Wilson
2  Lyndon Johnson
3  Abrahan Lincoln
4  Jimmy Carter
5  George W. Bush

Why Jefferson and Madison?

[rebeltarian]

1   Ronald Reagan
2   Thomas Jefferson
3   Calvin Coolidge
4   Andrew Jackson
5   George Washington
6   Grover Cleveland
7   James Madison
8   Martin Van Buren
9   Dwight Eisenhower
10 James K. Polk

And my top 5 worst, just for fun...

1  Woodrow Wilson
2  Lyndon Johnson
3  Abrahan Lincoln
4  Jimmy Carter
5  George W. Bush

Why Jefferson and Madison?

Thomas Jefferson:

-advocate of "American Exceptionalism" and personal liberty, father of republicanism
-cut taxes
-opposed the national bank
-made slave importation illegal
-Louisiana purchase
-maintained American neutrality during Napoleonic Wars

James Madison conversely expanded the government more what with supporting the Hamilton national bank, but he also was excellent on civil liberties and is often credited with creating the bill of rights.

[RScannix]

1   Ronald Reagan
2   Thomas Jefferson
3   Calvin Coolidge
4   Andrew Jackson
5   George Washington
6   Grover Cleveland
7   James Madison
8   Martin Van Buren
9   Dwight Eisenhower
10 James K. Polk

And my top 5 worst, just for fun...

1  Woodrow Wilson
2  Lyndon Johnson
3  Abrahan Lincoln
4  Jimmy Carter
5  George W. Bush

Why Jefferson and Madison?

Thomas Jefferson:

-advocate of "American Exceptionalism" and personal liberty, father of republicanism
-cut taxes
-opposed the national bank
-made slave importation illegal
-Louisiana purchase
-maintained American neutrality during Napoleonic Wars

James Madison conversely expanded the government more what with supporting the Hamilton national bank, but he also was excellent on civil liberties and is often credited with creating the bill of rights.

Eh....I liked Madison, but I'm lukewarm on Jefferson's presidency because of the embargo.

Why Polk? I know he accomplished all his goals and such, but he was one of the most aggressive expansionist presidents in history. The Mexican War was completely baseless save for the purpose of territorial aggrandizement.

[Alexander Hamilton]

1   Ronald Reagan
2   Thomas Jefferson
3   Calvin Coolidge
4   Andrew Jackson
5   George Washington
6   Grover Cleveland
7   James Madison
8   Martin Van Buren
9   Dwight Eisenhower
10 James K. Polk

And my top 5 worst, just for fun...

1  Woodrow Wilson
2  Lyndon Johnson
3  Abrahan Lincoln
4  Jimmy Carter
5  George W. Bush

Why Jefferson and Madison?

Thomas Jefferson:

-advocate of "American Exceptionalism" and personal liberty, father of republicanism
-cut taxes
-opposed the national bank
-made slave importation illegal
-Louisiana purchase
-maintained American neutrality during Napoleonic Wars

James Madison conversely expanded the government more what with supporting the Hamilton national bank, but he also was excellent on civil liberties and is often credited with creating the bill of rights.

But the Bill of Rights wasn't part of his presidency. I mean, this guy let the White House get burned down. He wasn't a very good president. And I think Hamilton's bank was a good idea. I'm sure you much prefer it to the Federal Reserve, right?

[RScannix]

Madison didn't really create the Bill of Rights....before changing his mind and helping push it through Congress in amendment form, he was dead set against it. He thought that by explicitly defining what rights were, it would encourage government to work around the legal definitions to violate individual liberty.

[Хahar 🤔]

I mean, this guy let the White House get burned down. He wasn't a very good president.

That's not exactly a particularly equitable way to look at his Presidency. The attack on Washington was a militarily pointless move in a time of war.

[rebeltarian]

1   Ronald Reagan
2   Thomas Jefferson
3   Calvin Coolidge
4   Andrew Jackson
5   George Washington
6   Grover Cleveland
7   James Madison
8   Martin Van Buren
9   Dwight Eisenhower
10 James K. Polk

And my top 5 worst, just for fun...

1  Woodrow Wilson
2  Lyndon Johnson
3  Abrahan Lincoln
4  Jimmy Carter
5  George W. Bush

Why Jefferson and Madison?

Thomas Jefferson:

-advocate of "American Exceptionalism" and personal liberty, father of republicanism
-cut taxes
-opposed the national bank
-made slave importation illegal
-Louisiana purchase
-maintained American neutrality during Napoleonic Wars

James Madison conversely expanded the government more what with supporting the Hamilton national bank, but he also was excellent on civil liberties and is often credited with creating the bill of rights.

Eh....I liked Madison, but I'm lukewarm on Jefferson's presidency because of the embargo.

Why Polk? I know he accomplished all his goals and such, but he was one of the most aggressive expansionist presidents in history. The Mexican War was completely baseless save for the purpose of territorial aggrandizement.

Jefferson at least maintained commerce for 6 years with Europe before the Embargo.  Plus, he never pulled a Woodrow and sent our military over there.

Polk is my one exception to the rule.  I put him on my list out of respect for his ability to accomplish his objectives.  Definitely an interventionist, Polk marginalized the British in the Northwest and Mexico in the Southwest, which, consequently, gave America the great economical and geo-stratigic advantage it has enjoyed since the expansion to the west coast.