Would America be better off...

[John Dibble]

Simple question - would the United States be better off than it is now if a strong third party arose that would have power on par with that of the two current parties?

[John Dibble]

Three parties are bad because one becomes basically a whore, trying to steal from the other two larger parties. And yes, it's stealing.

Oh, I was unaware that people's votes were owned by the political parties and not the people themselves. Do the Libertarians steal votes from Bush and Kerry, or do we earn them? I don't disagree that there COULD be a party that would whore itself out, but how would that be different from the Republicans or Democrats doing it now - I'd rather have two honest parties with ideals and one whore than two whores. But yeah, four or five would be good, four would probably fit if we had one for every major ideology here(conservative, left-liberal, libertarian, and populist).

[John Dibble]

If we had four parties, we'd have candidates winning with just over a fourth of the population's support!

Not good. John Dibble, how would you reform the voting system? And please don't say IRV.

Well, to start, I'm sure certain parties would do better in certain regions. So if we had four parties, I imagine the conservative and populist parties wouldn't do well in, say, California, but the left-liberal and libertarian parties would. That would partially solve the problem as far as local and state races would be concerned.

Still, you are right we'd need election reform, especially for presidential elections - I'm not an expert, and haven't done enough research to make a conclusion on what system would be best, but I kind of like the idea of approval voting. Condorcet also looks interesting. What I can tell you what we definitely don't need is proportional representation - I'd take IRV over that.

[John Dibble]

John Dibble.....you know I'm with you and I promise that if the libertarian party is projected to get 10% nationally I will vote for the libertarian....(if I don't you can kick my ass )

I wouldn't kick your ass for that - I'm a Libertarian after all. Break in to my house or attack me first, then we'll talk.

Anywho, you should start voting Libertarian now - we aren't going to get anywhere if people don't vote for us, and if people don't vote for us, people won't vote for us. Change won't come unless you're willing to work for it - my candidate may not win now, but the more of us who vote for him the more viable our party looks in the future. And if you can't bring yourself to vote Lib in the presidential election, you could always throw us some votes in your state and local elections.

[John Dibble]

Unfortunately the two major parties will never pass this. Perhaps the best route would be a Colorado-style amendment to mandate it?

Well, the two major parties wouldn't pass it as things are now - it would have to benefit them. A strong third party would make them lose power, and under the current system it would be likely one would collapse, so then it would benefit them, and they might do it then.

[John Dibble]

Three parties are bad because one becomes basically a whore, trying to steal from the other two larger parties. And yes, it's stealing.

Oh, I was unaware that people's votes were owned by the political parties and not the people themselves. Do the Libertarians steal votes from Bush and Kerry, or do we earn them? I don't disagree that there COULD be a party that would whore itself out, but how would that be different from the Republicans or Democrats doing it now - I'd rather have two honest parties with ideals and one whore than two whores. But yeah, four or five would be good, four would probably fit if we had one for every major ideology here(conservative, left-liberal, libertarian, and populist).

Please read my full post!!!! The weaker of the three parties would almost certainly become a whore.

By stealing votes I don't mean taking votes away from. I mean decieving people through lies.

I did read your full post - but I get angry when I hear about 'stealing' votes. Your people must be gullible if they fall for that party. And as I said, I'll take one weak whore over two strong ones. In our current system the weak one would die out.

[John Dibble]

Neither the Libertarians, the Constitutionalists, or the Greens could become a major party without moving toward the 'center.'

Or the center could move in one of their directions, which does happen sometimes.

[John Dibble]

But yeah, four or five would be good, four would probably fit if we had one for every major ideology here(conservative, left-liberal, libertarian, and populist).

And perhaps a centrist party as well? Honestly, as a Libertarian you should remember the World's Smallest Political Quiz...

No, because the centrists would be the swing voters, which I think we would still want to have some of.