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| | |-+  why are people bringing assault rifles to obama health care rallies?
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Author Topic: why are people bringing assault rifles to obama health care rallies?  (Read 2902 times)
dead0man
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« Reply #25 on: August 19, 2009, 06:02:31 am »
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Thankfully we don't live in your ideal world.
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StatesRights
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« Reply #26 on: August 19, 2009, 06:31:01 am »
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As I wrote a couple of days ago, considering the history of political assasinations and overall violence by right-wing extremists, whoever talks about people just exercising their second amendment rights is either dangerously naive or dangerously cavalier.

What? Most presidential assassins have been left leaning individuals.

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Landslide Lyndon
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« Reply #27 on: August 19, 2009, 10:54:02 am »
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And since when are death threats and calls for insurrection considered acceptable political behavior?
They aren't, have any of the gun carriers made death threats and calls for insurrection?  If they have, they should be investigated...just like anybody that makes a threat towards a sitting (or former) President.

(I'll concede "watering the tree of liberty" can sound a bit scary when the guy is carrying...but that doesn't mean he's about to start popping caps in asses anymore than a guy hanging Bush the Lesser in effigy is about to start stringing up Republicans)

Well, there were much more explicit threats than that. A guy was holding a sign saying "Death to Obama, Michelle and their stupid kids".
Alan Keyes said the other day at one of those gatherings that it is the patriotic duty of Americans to stop Obama, "by any means necessary".
How do you think a nutjob would interpret a statement like that?

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And by the way, I remember that they have already apprehended a man who tried to enter one of these town halls with a concealed weapon.  
Good, then they were doing their job.  I hope the guy is treated appropriately.


What do you think should be done to these people? (not the guy sneaking in with a gun, just the guys standing in approved protest zones)

I think that they should detain these guys for a little chat and background check, just in case there is a Tim McVeigh in the making among them.

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dead0man
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« Reply #28 on: August 19, 2009, 11:43:43 am »
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Well, there were much more explicit threats than that. A guy was holding a sign saying "Death to Obama, Michelle and their stupid kids".
Alan Keyes said the other day at one of those gatherings that it is the patriotic duty of Americans to stop Obama, "by any means necessary".
How do you think a nutjob would interpret a statement like that?
Quietly investigate the dudes with "death" signs.  I have no idea what to do about Keyes and others like him....he shouldn't be saying things like that though, I can agree there.
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I think that they should detain these guys for a little chat and background check, just in case there is a Tim McVeigh in the making among them.
Detain?  Question, of course.  No detaining unless they have further reason to be suspicious.
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DownWithTheLeft
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« Reply #29 on: August 19, 2009, 11:47:50 am »
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Still haven't pointed out what's wrong with my logic. If the purpose of a gun is to kill or seriously injure and we assume that these people aren't bringing guns to these things randomly but for a reason, then it makes sense that they're bringing the gun with violent intentions.
The logic is if they intended to commit violent acts they would have.  The purpose of carrying a gun is for self-defense, a noble cause
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« Reply #30 on: August 19, 2009, 11:48:39 am »
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I can't wait to see how many guns will be brandished at the G20, since PA is an open carry state.
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« Reply #31 on: August 19, 2009, 12:33:56 pm »
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Still haven't pointed out what's wrong with my logic. If the purpose of a gun is to kill or seriously injure and we assume that these people aren't bringing guns to these things randomly but for a reason, then it makes sense that they're bringing the gun with violent intentions.
The logic is if they intended to commit violent acts they would have.  The purpose of carrying a gun is for self-defense, a noble cause

Whether that is 'the purpose' or not is entirely unknown to us, and anyway can change instantly at the whim of the gun-weilder, Down.  I think it is absurd to accept that these thugs think someone is going to attack them at a town-hall meeting, but even assuming that is the case (perhaps they're extreme cowards), it is quite possible that they will become enraged due to someone speaking in a liberal fashion and begin spraying bullets into the darker portions of the crowd. 

The point is that 'the purpose' of carrying a gun is not really very relevant to what the gun is actually used for.
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« Reply #32 on: August 19, 2009, 12:39:44 pm »
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Thankfully we don't live in your ideal world.

How can you pretend to be a serious person, deadman, and condone people bringing guns to public political forums?  You are entirely discrediting yourself as a poster here.

Imagine yourself having a political argument, not through the safe medium of the internet as we do here, but toe to toe with a large, sweaty, stinking human male, filled with hatred and hormones, who not only disagrees with you, but thinks that your opinion is a direct attack on his prerogatives and privileges, and that said opinion makes you a criminal and a danger to 'the nation'.  Now, add to that he is brandishing a death-dealing weapon.  Do you really think it is reasonable to just go ahead and attempt to have a political discussion?  Is it really safe to just assume that he has the weapon there just 'for self defense' or some other mysterious purpose?
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« Reply #33 on: August 19, 2009, 01:02:09 pm »
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why do people bring assault rifles to obama healthcare rallies because there bats@#T f@#king crazy. a Healthcare town hall meeting were emotion's run high could easily lead to violence its not the proper place to bring a gun. I say that as somebody who believes people should have the right to bear arms as long as it says so in the Constitution.   
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War on Want
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« Reply #34 on: August 19, 2009, 01:05:28 pm »
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Jesus fucking christ people are stupid. Do you really think these people were carrying around exposed and loaded AR-15's just for protection? I know people who carry guns for protection and they are always concealed, small pistols. Those are for self-defense. When the fuck would you need to use AR-15's ever, unless you were being targeted by a drug cartel?

I'm not for gun control in any way either, I just find the far-right's mentality here to be bordering on insanity. There is something wrong with people carrying exposed powerful semi-automatic weapons at political rallies. Sure they might have the right to do so but just because you have the right to shove a dildo up your asshole doesn't mean it is a wise or noble idea. The same applies for bringing exposed and loaded weapons to political rallies.
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« Reply #35 on: August 19, 2009, 01:09:08 pm »
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if other people are bringing guns to healthcare rallies, I think I'm gonna have to bring mine there too in order to defend myself
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« Reply #36 on: August 19, 2009, 01:12:06 pm »
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To take out RPGs, obviously.
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Sam Spade
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« Reply #37 on: August 19, 2009, 01:54:39 pm »
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Usually Presidents (or other persons) get assassinated by people who hide their guns, not those who carry them out in the open.

Just something to think about.
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War on Want
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« Reply #38 on: August 19, 2009, 02:47:52 pm »
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Usually Presidents (or other persons) get assassinated by people who hide their guns, not those who carry them out in the open.

Just something to think about.
Obviously but it doesn't make these people any less disturbing.
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« Reply #39 on: August 19, 2009, 02:53:23 pm »
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Usually Presidents (or other persons) get assassinated by people who hide their guns, not those who carry them out in the open.

Just something to think about.
Obviously but it doesn't make these people any less disturbing.

I'm telling  you, boys and girls, the G-20 is going to be the frigging wild west here.
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« Reply #40 on: August 19, 2009, 02:53:48 pm »
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Usually Presidents (or other persons) get assassinated by people who hide their guns, not those who carry them out in the open.

Just something to think about.

Thank you for contributing an irrelevancy.  

The crazies with the guns are not very likely to manage to assassinate, but they are very likely to kill someone purely on impulse.  The whole danger of having ordinary fools walking around with guns is that ordinary fools get angry.  Ordinary fools, particularly the right-wing american variety, are very excitable and only marginally in touch with reality.  

Yes, we may feel some comfort in knowing that their incompetence means important people will probably escape their murderous wrath, but does that mean we need have no concern whatever for public safety?
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« Reply #41 on: August 19, 2009, 03:10:29 pm »
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Because guns have everything to do with health care reform. My liberties will not be stepped on. Read the constitution, Aizen. AngryAngry
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CubOB
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« Reply #42 on: August 19, 2009, 03:32:20 pm »
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It's an attempt to suppress opposition by using intimidation and fear. In other words, it's terrorism.
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« Reply #43 on: August 19, 2009, 03:32:52 pm »
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Jesus fucking christ people are stupid. Do you really think these people were carrying around exposed and loaded AR-15's just for protection? I know people who carry guns for protection and they are always concealed, small pistols. Those are for self-defense. When the fuck would you need to use AR-15's ever, unless you were being targeted by a drug cartel?

I'm not for gun control in any way either, I just find the far-right's mentality here to be bordering on insanity. There is something wrong with people carrying exposed powerful semi-automatic weapons at political rallies. Sure they might have the right to do so but just because you have the right to shove a dildo up your asshole doesn't mean it is a wise or noble idea. The same applies for bringing exposed and loaded weapons to political rallies.

I agree.
I just disagree with people who say everybody who owns a gun has an intent to kill.
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« Reply #44 on: August 19, 2009, 03:33:33 pm »
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It's an attempt to suppress opposition by using intimidation and fear. In other words, it's terrorism.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Well said!!
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« Reply #45 on: August 19, 2009, 03:35:35 pm »
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As I wrote a couple of days ago, considering the history of political assasinations and overall violence by right-wing extremists, whoever talks about people just exercising their second amendment rights is either dangerously naive or dangerously cavalier.

What? Most presidential assassins have been left leaning individuals.



Especially that renowned communist James Wilkes Booth.
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« Reply #46 on: August 19, 2009, 05:24:24 pm »
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If I had to guess a reason, it would be because it pisses off them thare liburals. Seriously. A big hubbub was made about the guy who had a handgun in open carry, so I think this is just a counter-reaction.
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« Reply #47 on: August 19, 2009, 06:42:36 pm »
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Just my two cents on this topic.

I find it odd that no one has mentioned in this whole hes carrying it for protection ever takes that to its next logical step.  What if the person with his weapon decided he was threaten(whatever that's means, and one could feel that way very easily in a situation such as these) and decided to use it.  In a crowd like these there is little reliability that the person would find his target especially with a semi or fully automatic weapons whose accuracy are far from ideal in the best of hands and at the least of stressful situations.  This would cause something similar to Kent state except i worry that both sides would become violent.  Sometimes ones right should be decreased in situations so as to foster safety and calm for all involved.  Let alone this is a health care debate and not a gun rights debate. There is no analogous here no matter what slippery slope someone might try to make. 

I like owning guns there fun to shoot, i don't particularly like hunting more so due to my suckage at it than anything else.  But just because i like my gun and owning it doesn't mean i need to carry my weapon every where i go.  If i was going into bad parts of Indy when i worked there i always did.  Also i always take it when I'm going on a long trip that involves night driving but those are responsible uses.  Just because it is technically right doesn't mean that it is right.  We should not be applauding these people but condemning and ostracizing them.  You don't need to make new laws but as a community if we say this is not the correct behavior and show these people as the fools they are, not some kinda freedom fighting heroes, the same goal will be achieved.  Just my opinion we all i have one who knows if my is good.  Time to go drink beer, watch baseball, and forgot about politics.
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« Reply #48 on: August 19, 2009, 07:24:36 pm »
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Well, let 'em do it. It's there responsibility if they screw up. And that gives us the legal authority to crack down on them and basically lock not just conservatives in Congress out of the debate, but the conservative movement out of the debate. That's what employers do to strikers when they reasonably thing there is going to be a strike.
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War on Want
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« Reply #49 on: August 19, 2009, 07:48:31 pm »
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Jesus fucking christ people are stupid. Do you really think these people were carrying around exposed and loaded AR-15's just for protection? I know people who carry guns for protection and they are always concealed, small pistols. Those are for self-defense. When the fuck would you need to use AR-15's ever, unless you were being targeted by a drug cartel?

I'm not for gun control in any way either, I just find the far-right's mentality here to be bordering on insanity. There is something wrong with people carrying exposed powerful semi-automatic weapons at political rallies. Sure they might have the right to do so but just because you have the right to shove a dildo up your asshole doesn't mean it is a wise or noble idea. The same applies for bringing exposed and loaded weapons to political rallies.

I agree.
I just disagree with people who say everybody who owns a gun has an intent to kill.
Of course, I do too. Maybe kill to protect themselves, but not to kill innocent bystanders.
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