What's the Deal With Euthanasia?!?!

[Vlad the Imperial]

Now that I have your attention, I want a nice mature discussion on assisted suicide.

[IDS Legislator Alfred F. Jones]

Well, euthanasia and assisted suicide are different things IIRC - the first is just a doctor pulling the plug or whatever directly and the second is the doctor giving the patient some pills and saying "take these if you want to die". I'm personally opposed to the first and I support the second - I think people should have the right to control when and how they die.

[Vlad the Imperial]

IIRC-
Illinois Interactive Report Card Web site - the premier web site for test results and other school accountability information for Illinois schools.

[IDS Legislator Alfred F. Jones]

That is exactly what I meant.

[SPC]

Am I the only one who read the thread title in Jerry Seinfeld's voice?

[For Oklahoma]

Am I the only one who read the thread title in Jerry Seinfeld's voice?

Dammit, I only came in here to post "and what's the deal with airline food?!?!"

[Siloch]

I would legalise it but it should be HEAVILY monitored.

Emos should be banned.

[King]

And how about that airline food?

[Californian Tony]

The deal with euthanasia is that some people want to deprive individual of their absolute, sacro-sact right to make a reasoned decision over their own lives.

[asexual trans victimologist]

The word is sacrosanct, and I'm not sure that that right is, although I wouldn't go so far as to actively deny that it is in a political (as opposed to religious or theoretical) context.

[Californian Tony]

The word is sacrosanct, and I'm not sure that that right is, although I wouldn't go so far as to actively deny that it is in a political (as opposed to religious or theoretical) context.

Look, I think you know I am not your typical social libertarian, "freedom to choose" crusader. But don't you believe that when someone who is suffering in a way which we can hardly conceive without the hope of ever getting better, consciously decides, after a thorough reflection and discussion with their relatives and the medical personnel, to put an end to his life, the State should deprive him of that choices? This is the view I find deeply shocking, from a purely human and emotional standpoint.

[♀ Komrade Feminazi Kitteh ♀]

Re: the title:

You, my friend, need to become familiar with the interrobang.

What's the Deal With Euthanasia‽‽

See, much better

[asexual trans victimologist]

The word is sacrosanct, and I'm not sure that that right is, although I wouldn't go so far as to actively deny that it is in a political (as opposed to religious or theoretical) context.

Look, I think you know I am not your typical social libertarian, "freedom to choose" crusader. But don't you believe that when someone who is suffering in a way which we can hardly conceive without the hope of ever getting better, consciously decides, after a thorough reflection and discussion with their relatives and the medical personnel, to put an end to his life, the State should deprive him of that choices? This is the view I find deeply shocking, from a purely human and emotional standpoint.

This is one of those issues that I can't really develop a strong opinion on, because I admit that the life I lead is indeed vastly different from that experienced by somebody in that situation and so I'm reluctant to apply my personal beliefs, which are strongly condemnatory of suicide.

[Californian Tony]

The word is sacrosanct, and I'm not sure that that right is, although I wouldn't go so far as to actively deny that it is in a political (as opposed to religious or theoretical) context.

Look, I think you know I am not your typical social libertarian, "freedom to choose" crusader. But don't you believe that when someone who is suffering in a way which we can hardly conceive without the hope of ever getting better, consciously decides, after a thorough reflection and discussion with their relatives and the medical personnel, to put an end to his life, the State should deprive him of that choices? This is the view I find deeply shocking, from a purely human and emotional standpoint.

This is one of those issues that I can't really develop a strong opinion on, because I admit that the life I lead is indeed vastly different from that experienced by somebody in that situation and so I'm reluctant to apply my personal beliefs, which are strongly condemnatory of suicide.

But isn't this precisely the kind of topic where one should very strongly separate their personal beliefs with regard to how someone should behave from their political stances with regard to what the State should allow/ban? While I do not share your disapproval of suicide at all, I think I might have the same feelings you have with regards to abortion. I profoundly abhor the idea of aborting, but at the same time I vigorously believe that the right policy for a society is to have safe, legal and affordable abortions for anyone. I don't think the two are inconsistent.

[asexual trans victimologist]

The word is sacrosanct, and I'm not sure that that right is, although I wouldn't go so far as to actively deny that it is in a political (as opposed to religious or theoretical) context.

Look, I think you know I am not your typical social libertarian, "freedom to choose" crusader. But don't you believe that when someone who is suffering in a way which we can hardly conceive without the hope of ever getting better, consciously decides, after a thorough reflection and discussion with their relatives and the medical personnel, to put an end to his life, the State should deprive him of that choices? This is the view I find deeply shocking, from a purely human and emotional standpoint.

This is one of those issues that I can't really develop a strong opinion on, because I admit that the life I lead is indeed vastly different from that experienced by somebody in that situation and so I'm reluctant to apply my personal beliefs, which are strongly condemnatory of suicide.

But isn't this precisely the kind of topic where one should very strongly separate their personal beliefs with regard to how someone should behave from their political stances with regard to what the State should allow/ban? While I do not share your disapproval of suicide at all, I think I might have the same feelings you have with regards to abortion. I profoundly abhor the idea of aborting, but at the same time I vigorously believe that the right policy for a society is to have safe, legal and affordable abortions for anyone. I don't think the two are inconsistent.

I have the same issues with developing a strong political position on abortion, actually. I understand the ideal, which come to think of it one could argue is related to the veil of ignorance, that these are issues where one should separate out one's personal beliefs, but I have a hard time actually doing it--call it a personality flaw if you will. Generally I just vote for left-wing candidates on these as other issues and hope for the best, unless they actually come up as ballot questions (as assisted suicide did in Massachusetts last year; I was for a time undecided but then felt comfortable in voting no when even some people who supported it in theory started saying that they thought that the proposed law as written was bad).

[Californian Tony]

I understand your difficulty, and it's certainly never easy to separate the two things (and obviously, people who too strictly separate personal morality from political philosophy also tend to develop major flaws). Also, it is fully justifiable that you might not want to vote for a law which is poorly written and can reasonably lead to abuses. With that said, I still think it is important to keep this distinction. It does not mean that moral thinking should be excluded from political debate, as some extreme social libertarians absurdly claim, but rather that there are too kind of morality: a "personal" one (how you think people should behave), and a "social" one (how you think society should be organized). And I believe that completely equating the two is extremely dangerous.