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Author Topic: FDR is assassinated in 1933?  (Read 2663 times)
Psychic Octopus
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« on: August 22, 2009, 12:26:03 am »
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I wonder about this a lot, a world without FDR, it seems like the results would be horrific. I'm going to write a timeline on this after I finish  my Bush Wins in 1992.

Any Ideas on how horrible this would be?
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Psychic Octopus
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« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2009, 04:04:01 pm »
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ANSWER ME!
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RScannix
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« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2009, 04:20:51 pm »
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He's assasinated in 1933..so I'm assuming Garner becomes president. Much more moderate than FDR...tougher on Unions, less interventionist (militarily and economically). Economically not much changes from 1932-36, as the Depression didn't alter much in that time even under FDR's New Deal.

What does change is the public perception of government. People become agitated that government isn't "doing enough." Maybe Huey Long doesn't get assasinated? Maybe he becomes president, and leads even more radical economic alterations than FDR? Or Garner barely survives a primary challenge in 1936 and goes on to be defeated by a Republican (Willkie? Dewey? Taft?), which is followed by continued popular discontent and then an even more radical leader than Long elected in 1940?

The United States would probably avoid intervening in WWII if the political climate followed as outline above. I think Germany still loses, but largely at the behest of Soviet Russia and the war lasts a year or two longer. Russia asserts a more dominant position in European affairs (but not quite hegemony) as there is little to keep it in check. As for Japan, it asserts itself as a major Pacific power, as the Soviet Union, exhausted from carrying the Allied effort on its back, allows Japan to get off relatively light in peace negotiations. Oh, and USSR develops the atomic bomb way before anyone else.

Although I would have vehemently opposed FDR at any other time in American history, he was in the right place at the right time. It is quite possible that U.S. and the world would have been much worse off without his presidency. Not quite as great a man as everyone makes him out to be, but much better than the likely alternatives.
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"But men are men: fallen, selfish, greedy, prideful, and more than happy to use state power to advance personal agendas." - James Madison, Federalist #51
Psychic Octopus
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« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2009, 05:21:09 pm »
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What about this? Suppose Hitler never invaded the Soviet Union, and instead commenced Operation Sea Lion, without American help, Britain would have not beat back the krauts. So we see Nazi-dominated Europe, Soviet-dominated Asia, Japanese-dominated Pacific, and Italian-dominated Africa? Although Hitler's blind hatred for bolshevism probably would have prevented this from happening, could this have happened if FDR died?
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RScannix
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« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2009, 06:45:19 pm »
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What about this? Suppose Hitler never invaded the Soviet Union, and instead commenced Operation Sea Lion, without American help, Britain would have not beat back the krauts. So we see Nazi-dominated Europe, Soviet-dominated Asia, Japanese-dominated Pacific, and Italian-dominated Africa? Although Hitler's blind hatred for bolshevism probably would have prevented this from happening, could this have happened if FDR died?

As you say, I don't think it ever would have happened; Hitler showed little capacity for the kind of strategic restraint this would have required. But, militarily speaking, it could have happened, though I wonder of China's fate and I think any invasion of Britain would have taken years of planning and buildup. It would have ensured that the U.S. stayed isolationist, or simply sought to play off the three powers against one another unless provoked. It's hard to imagine the U.S. gravitating heavily towards any of those powers, save for a radical change in political mentality or some kind of perceived economic necessity (oil?).

Internally, though, all three would have had serious problems. Hitler would have had to handle continued resistance and guerrilla warfare, especially in France and Britain. Many refugees would have fled to Canada or the Soviet Union (depending on their political views) and funded resistance from there. The USSR would have had issues with the Middle East (as in reality, though they probably would have competed with Germany here) and in China. Much of Asia would be outside of their influence for some time; I don't think they could have consolidated it very rapidly. Japan would have similar problems in China (presuming they maintained a position there) and Southeast Asia.

And what of Africa? Do some pieces escape colonialism? I cannot imagine a war-weary Germany occupying the entire continent (or even most of it). Australia and New Zealand are another question mark; I don't think Japan would have been able to dominate them, at least not physically.
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"But men are men: fallen, selfish, greedy, prideful, and more than happy to use state power to advance personal agendas." - James Madison, Federalist #51
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Kalwejt
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« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2009, 07:55:14 pm »
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Read my TL and you will find out, what would happen if FDR is assassinated Grin

And seriously, Garner wouldn't be very effective in dealing with crisis, so perhaps (assuming of course U.S. will survive this), some Progressive Republican would win in 1936, and currently GOP would be liberal and Democratic conservative parties.
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Alexander Hamilton
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« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2009, 07:56:51 pm »
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My sig would have happened. Smiley
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Psychic Octopus
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« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2009, 08:20:41 pm »
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A Huey Long presidency would go like this:

1. Huey Long invites Hitler to Washington...

2. Hitler accepts...

3. They meet in a backroom...

4. Long shoots Hitler in the face.
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Lewis Trondheim
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« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2009, 02:07:28 pm »
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Lol at most replies so far.

It's pretty interesting to think about. The attempt really happened, of course.
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Psychic Octopus
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« Reply #9 on: September 26, 2009, 12:19:52 pm »
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Lol at most replies so far.

It's pretty interesting to think about. The attempt really happened, of course.

Ah yes, old Giuseppe Zangara.
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Bo
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« Reply #10 on: December 20, 2009, 03:27:16 pm »
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The New Deal would probably be much smaller since Garner was much more conservative than FDR.
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Psychic Octopus
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« Reply #11 on: December 20, 2009, 04:10:23 pm »
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Oh, thanks for bumping this. A timeline about this is in the works, people. Wink
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« Reply #12 on: December 20, 2009, 06:36:04 pm »
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Oh, thanks for bumping this. A timeline about this is in the works, people. Wink

You're welcome.
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Dallasfan65
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« Reply #13 on: December 20, 2009, 06:41:10 pm »
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I don't think Willkie would've been the nominee if it weren't for the landslide defeats of his predecessors, and Garner would've had narrower victories. 2 terms of Garner and then maybe LaFollete JR or Dewey? maybe Vandenburg with concerns over US involvement in WW2 growing.
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Psychic Octopus
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« Reply #14 on: December 21, 2009, 09:02:01 pm »
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My sig would have happened. Smiley

People suck?
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Lewis Trondheim
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« Reply #15 on: December 23, 2009, 04:54:35 pm »
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Are we assuming Giuseppe Zangara shoots Roosevelt? That would have been three weeks before inauguration day, while the world and American banking system was literally unravelling all around. Would the administration have been able to react as it did while also grieving the assassinated President - the man the country was hoping for? Garner was hardly the man to inspire Roosevelt's kind of following. Mass movements calling themselves Fascist and/or Socialist might well have filled the void.
Zangara's vulgarly anarchist rhetoric - he would of course have received much broader coverage - might have created another Red Scare, though. I dunno.
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"The secret to having a rewarding work-life balance is to have no life. Then it's easy to keep things balanced by doing no work." Wally



"Our party do not have any ideology... Our main aim is to grab power ... Every one is doing so but I say it openly." Keshav Dev Maurya
rob in cal
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« Reply #16 on: December 29, 2009, 12:45:55 pm »
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Assuming a less interventionist President in the late 1930's this would have some impact on British and French decisions about whether to challenge Germany. So, potentially we have no British guarentee of Poland, and Poland, left without allies in the west, and facing the Soviets to the east, agrees to allow Germany to annex Danzig and some of the corridor region.  A one-front Germany vs Russia war in the early 1940's might have been a logical outcome. 
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