Zombies, Parties, Elections, and Stuff

[Bacon King]

This is a post in response to DWTL. I think it needs its own thread because I really feel that this is beginning to ruin the game in a lot of ways. It's a bit ranty but still valid. Does anyone else feel this way?

The return to a party structure did which you guys kind of caused did, yeah, but that doesn't mean you won't also be the ones to kill it.

The only thing that could kill Atlasia is what doomed it prior to the RPP, liberals outnumbering conservatives 3 and 4 to 1.  Now that its only about 60/40 that's what is keeping the game interesting

There's nothing interesting about floods of zombies registering and voting together but never really being a part of the game.

You and others keep saying that, but as I pointed out we've had plenty of people branded with that label who have gone to great things.  Most who haven't have left and voted once or never voted

I've already pointed out how the people you listed who've supposedly been given the label of "zombie" either weren't actually called that by anyone sane or didn't match the definition at all anyway. Do you even read what I say or just hash out an automatic response on a post by post basis?

Let me flesh it out for you. You, or some members of your party, are actively recruiting people from outside of the forum to come, get an Atlas account, and then discretely post until they meet the requirements to register and then they just sit around and vote the RPP party line. These new members don't even know how the game works! Most of them are not going to be active, they'll rarely contribute to the game, and they'll really only serve to pad your party's vote totals without contributing anything. Of the dozen or so people I hyperlinked to earlier, please show me how one of them has made some sort of substantive input to Atlasia. Seriously, you can't, because they all make basic commentary at most just to pad their post count to vote. They've done nothing for this game except show up because you told them to and vote for the people you told them to. And it's so obvious that it's just sickening.

You're an utter hypocrite if you think the JCP is anywhere even in the same ballpark with its so-called "zombie" members. At worst we have active posters who like this game but don't get involved in the specific politics that much. I've asked over and over, what's wrong with this? I've yet to get an answer... it's basically just a silly talking point you've created in some futile game of partisan one-uppance. The RPP drones in contrast literally do nothing except load the game in your favor. Maybe one or two will actually get involved but most of the herd has never done anything but give you votes when you want them to. It's wrong on so many levels and it's also annoying as hell. Your annoying recruitment games give you nothing but an artificial advantage you've given yourself because it seems like you take this game way too seriously.

If you think the JCP has "zombies," seriously, put things into perspective. How would you like it if I went and recruited a dozen or so friends to make Atlas accounts, register here, and then vote for the people and things I tell them to? I could do it, and I honestly thought about it at a point. It would give the JCP an edge, of course. I could even take the Southeast from your party's grasp if I did it right. However, it would be annoying and deleterious to the fun that everyone gets from this game. I don't think you see that at all just because your only concern seems to be winning. If you honestly have such blatant disregard for the spirit of this game, then you really don't even belong in Atlasia in the first place. I don't care how obnoxiously full of yourself you are, your drone army takes the fun out of this game. What's the point in having elections if you've already calculated the votes you need and registered exactly enough off-forum people to make it happen?

I'm sick of the attitude most of your party has about this, and you have no idea how close I am to just quitting. I'm at the point where if it gets any worse I will just throw my hands up in disgust and leave. I know I can't be the only person that feels this way. Just please, man, stop. Recruit all the blue avatars you want, if they're already posters on the forum, but stop it with this zombie sh**t.

[Bacon King]

Other relevant posts from earlier in the conversation. Examples of what exactly I am talking about here.

Each hyperlink is a different "zombie voter." I did miss a couple, by the way.

JCP has plenty of voters who aren't that too active in Atlasia itself, but who post frequently on the forum. I don't see anything wrong with that because at its core this game is an election simulation designed by and for the members of this forum. The RPP, in contrast, has a pretty high number of obviously-recruited members who seem to usually barely meet the activity requirements yet always pop in for big elections. That, while not illegal, is incredibly annoying and nothing short of blatantly gaming the system.

The ballots of the zombie voters. Recognize any of these names? Didn't think so!

Honestly, though, I think "zombie reform" would be great for preventing things like this:

1. RowanBrandon
2. SPC
3. AHDuke (write-in)
4. Marokai Blue
5. Franzl

1. RowanBrandon
2. SPC
3. Write-in: AHDuke
4. Marokai Blue
5. Franzl

1. RowanBrandon
2. SPC
3. Write-in: AHDuke
4. Marokai Blue
5. Franzl

1. RowanBrandon
2. SPC
3. Write-in: AHDuke
4. Fritz
5. Marokai Blue

1. RowanBrandon
2. SPC
3. Write-in: AHDuke
4. Franzl
5. Afleitch
6. Marokai Blue
7. Fritz

1) RowanBrandon
2) SPC
3) Write in: AHDuke
4) Marokai Blue
5) afleitch
6) Franz
7) Write in: Alexander Hamilton

Hey look, six people that joined both the forum and Atlasia at the same time, who each have around the same amount of posts and are all voting exactly the same way. I'm sure they'll be really active posters and I bet they weren't recruited at all!!!

Seriously, this sh**t ruins the fun of the game.

[Marokai Backbeat]

Damn, I almost replied in time on the other thread.

Wow BK. Well said, I can only say that I feel the exact same way, and it's why I've lost a considerable amount of enthusiasm for Atlasia. (Of course, part of that is my recent family issues.) It's really sad that people are openly recruiting from other sites, and the vast majority of these people don't give a damn about anything other than voting, and are usually young and know absolutely nothing about the way the game works.

When I joined the game, I was recruited by Xahar for his purposes in strengthening the SDP, sure. But I was also a semi-established member of the forum that had been around for awhile, participated in political discussion elsewhere, and I actually read alot on the Atlasia wiki (where I picked up my love of "repairing" the wiki) before I participated more. But the point is, even though I was recruited initially to be an SDP footsoldier, I grew and participated and learned, and became what I am today with alot of accomplishments under my belt.

The contrast between my story and many others (like PS or Barnes) is stark, and undeniable.

As for "anti-zombie" legislation, I won't support anymore of it. In fact, I regret certain provisions in my constitutional amendment I pushed to pass, because I realized it doesn't prevent zombies at all. Bgwah and I chat off site a fair bit, and he occasionally send me links to potential recruits. Sadly, some of these members, though intelligent and verbose, don't have the required amount of posts. Trolls/zombies will spam, and strengthening posting requirements doesn't matter because these people don't care how they come across or how blatant their zombie-ism is because their sole purpose is to be a drone.

A perfect example is one of the more recent RPP drones who made over half the registration requirement in less than forty-five minutes. That speaks for itself, I think, and it's why zombie legislation is pointless and only hurts people who take the game more maturely instead of obsessively, ironic as that may seem.

[bgwah]

I try to be indifferent about the issue, though the RPP's hypocrisy is growing old.

Everyone outside of the RPP found the flurry of spam-to-50 registrations suspicious. Maybe it's just an innocent coincidence, but I don't think it's outrageous for us to be somewhat suspicious.

[Bacon King]

I try to be indifferent about the issue, though the RPP's is growing old.

Everyone outside of the RPP found the flurry of spam-to-50 registrations suspicious. Maybe it's just an innocent coincidence, but I don't think it's outrageous for us to be somewhat suspicious.

Just as an example here, two members spammed to fifty post and then registered within two hours of the August 12 deadline to vote in this election; this deadline is something any new member would obviously not know about. There was obviously someone telling them to get posts and register by this day. It is clear as day that there was recruitment from outside of the forum.

[minionofmidas]

You're an utter hypocrite if you think the JCP is anywhere even in the same ballpark with its so-called "zombie" members. At worst we have active posters who like this game but don't get involved in the specific politics that much.

That's not quite true. That's true of many of them, but there's others who have been recruited, don't care about Atlasia at all except maybe that they like the fact it's there, and come and vote.

The difference is of course that they're still Atlasians, or Forummers if you prefer, and aren't here just for Atlasia. The game isn't serving its purpose if anybody's here just for Atlasia.

[Fritz]

I agree that the flurry of spam-to-50 registrations just before deadline for the RPP (Pacific region to boot) is highly suspect, and reflects badly on the RPP.  These particular zombies, it appears, will make the difference between the RPP gaining two seats vs. just one.

However, this is a game.  Games have rules, and so long as the rules are being followed, no one is doing anything wrong.  Now if there is voter fraud going on, I hope this can be discovered, and the guilty prosecuted.  Absent voter fraud, the RPP is employing a legal election strategy that appears to be working.

There is no way to craft any decent legislation to prevent this strategy, that will not do more harm than good.  Our best defense would be to fight fire with fire, and do exactly the same thing next election.  While I hate to see the JCP go down this road, the RPP opened up this can of worms.

DWTL, just admit what was done, stop lying about it.

[Alexander Hamilton]

I signed up for Atlasia on my 26th post. No I did not know much about what I was getting into. However, I am now one of the most active people here and to me, it is a worthwhile experience. Some come, some stay, some leave, but regardless, Atlasia is not an exclusive VIP club, we should be open to all who express interest.

[DownWithTheLeft]

DWTL, just admit what was done, stop lying about it.

I've never lied about anything.  The RPP, although not myself I don't like doing recruiting and have other responsibilities, seeks out new members hoping to get them interested in Atlasia.  If they chose to stay great as many have, if they chose to leave well then they didn't really want to be here.  Take for example, Luis Gonzalez, sure he hasn't been active but he never voted or perhaps voted once so I don't see the harm. 

Bottom line is this, the RPP is all for strict zombie legislation to clear the voter rolls and such but the JCP is the one against it.  Think that says something?

[DownWithTheLeft]

BTW, anyone who thinks that we threaten voters or send out PMs and ballots really needs to talk to some in the Pacific right now

[MasterJedi]

Even if you consider some of our members zombies they at least post occasionally in Atlasia. The JCP zombies never do.  Both seem to participate in the forum as a whole but I can say I'd rather prefer members who at least post a few times in Atlasia than never though of course I'd rather have everyone be active.

[HappyWarrior]

Even if you consider some of our members zombies they at least post occasionally in Atlasia. The JCP zombies never do.  Both seem to participate in the forum as a whole but I can say I'd rather prefer members who at least post a few times in Atlasia than never though of course I'd rather have everyone be active.

MJ you're my boy and you know it but that is bs.  I have never seen a good post by any of these new members that would suggest they actually care beyond being able to vote but Hamilton.

[DownWithTheLeft]

The RPP is the only major party to endorse zombie reform such as wiping voter rolls and requiring Atlasian activity

[HappyWarrior]

The RPP is the only major party to endorse zombie reform such as wiping voter rolls and requiring Atlasian activity

Wrong!  DA also supports zombie reform

[MasterJedi]

Even if you consider some of our members zombies they at least post occasionally in Atlasia. The JCP zombies never do.  Both seem to participate in the forum as a whole but I can say I'd rather prefer members who at least post a few times in Atlasia than never though of course I'd rather have everyone be active.

MJ you're my boy and you know it but that is bs.  I have never seen a good post by any of these new members that would suggest they actually care beyond being able to vote but Hamilton.

I've seen random posts occasionally. I'm not saying it's a lot but hey, I'll take anything atm over just a vote.

[HappyWarrior]

Even if you consider some of our members zombies they at least post occasionally in Atlasia. The JCP zombies never do.  Both seem to participate in the forum as a whole but I can say I'd rather prefer members who at least post a few times in Atlasia than never though of course I'd rather have everyone be active.

MJ you're my boy and you know it but that is bs.  I have never seen a good post by any of these new members that would suggest they actually care beyond being able to vote but Hamilton.

I've seen random posts occasionally. I'm not saying it's a lot but hey, I'll take anything atm over just a vote.

But thats the problem man, these people don't care beyond what they're told to do.  At least from my POV it seems like they were told to do this.  Nothing else makes any sense.

[DownWithTheLeft]

The RPP is the only major party to endorse zombie reform such as wiping voter rolls and requiring Atlasian activity

Wrong!  DA also supports zombie reform

If that was 100% true, why aren't the RPP getting all your preferences ahead of JCP candidates?  My party and myself are 100% committed to such reform as I told Sen. Hashemite, and would be willing to support his draft bill with a few changes.

[MasterJedi]

Even if you consider some of our members zombies they at least post occasionally in Atlasia. The JCP zombies never do.  Both seem to participate in the forum as a whole but I can say I'd rather prefer members who at least post a few times in Atlasia than never though of course I'd rather have everyone be active.

MJ you're my boy and you know it but that is bs.  I have never seen a good post by any of these new members that would suggest they actually care beyond being able to vote but Hamilton.

I've seen random posts occasionally. I'm not saying it's a lot but hey, I'll take anything atm over just a vote.

But thats the problem man, these people don't care beyond what they're told to do.  At least from my POV it seems like they were told to do this.  Nothing else makes any sense.

And that's the same for the JCP. They're told the candidates who they're supposed to support (basically who their party is running)and they come in and vote for them. According to them they support the candidates in whichever order they want but they're still told to come out and support the party with not knowing what's going on.

It's the same thing, just if you want to see it or not. I'd like to reform it, but until the JCP wants to change it too that won't happen.

[Hash]

The RPP is the only major party to endorse zombie reform such as wiping voter rolls and requiring Atlasian activity

Wrong!  DA also supports zombie reform

If that was 100% true, why aren't the RPP getting all your preferences ahead of JCP candidates?  My party and myself are 100% committed to such reform as I told Sen. Hashemite, and would be willing to support his draft bill with a few changes.

Ever thought that DA voters' third and so forth prefs may depend on other things than zombie reform?

[HappyWarrior]

The RPP is the only major party to endorse zombie reform such as wiping voter rolls and requiring Atlasian activity

Wrong!  DA also supports zombie reform

If that was 100% true, why aren't the RPP getting all your preferences ahead of JCP candidates?  My party and myself are 100% committed to such reform as I told Sen. Hashemite, and would be willing to support his draft bill with a few changes.

Simply because of the way your campaign was run with no real attempt at getting outsiders to vote.  The only one who cared to try and get our votes was Duke, hence him getting high preferences and the other two not.  Though SPC did come to me, I decided to put Duke high due to his being fairly moderate.  I also respect the two JCPers running especially because one is a former DAer.  And MJ trust me I see it, the thing is that the JCP isn't going outnd getting a whole bunch of new little trolls to join their party like I've noticed with the RPP.  Plus with the JCP I can always respect their candidates and how they run.  I've already raised my concerns with the RPP candidates, particularly Rowan.

[DownWithTheLeft]

Ever thought that DA voters' third and so forth prefs may depend on other things than zombie reform?

It seemed to be pretty make or break for you in the SE, and if the DA doesn't want to be run of out town it would be beneficial to them.  The survival of the DA as a powerful force basically centers on zombie reform

[DownWithTheLeft]

HW you run concerns about everything

[Hash]

Ever thought that DA voters' third and so forth prefs may depend on other things than zombie reform?

It seemed to be pretty make or break for you in the SE, and if the DA doesn't want to be run of out town it would be beneficial to them.  The survival of the DA as a powerful force basically centers on zombie reform

I am concerned about zombie reforms and other members of the DA are too, I can guarantee that.

[Vepres]

While I don't approve of the recent wave of zombie RPP voters, I don't think zombie reform would do more harm than good. I was recruited when I had, IIRC, 70ish posts. I got really into the game, and now look where I am. If you could somehow enact zombie reform that allowed somebody like me to join when I did but not a zombie, I'm all for it. I just don't see how you can do it though.

[DownWithTheLeft]

While I don't approve of the recent wave of zombie RPP voters, I don't think zombie reform would do more harm than good. I was recruited when I had, IIRC, 70ish posts. I got really into the game, and now look where I am. If you could somehow enact zombie reform that allowed somebody like me to join when I did but not a zombie, I'm all for it. I just don't see how you can do it though.

The idea of the legislation is not to discourage newbies, but from making sure that they stay active if they want to continue voting