Should private military contractors be outlawed?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Yes.

I'd also support arresting every single person who has ever been employed by Blackwater in any capacity and giving every single one a life sentence. Every single current Blackwater or ex-Blackwater employee is complete disgusting human trash, no exceptions. Nothing but murderous thugs.

[Marokai Backbeat]

Yes, absolutely. They're nothing but trouble and almost impossible to hold accountable.

[Associate Justice PiT]

     The military industrial complex as a whole should be torn asunder. Make of that what you will.

[Alexander Hamilton]

Yes, absolutely. They're nothing but trouble and almost impossible to hold accountable.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

Unless the size of the military increases 100 fold, it's not possible.

[dead0man]

Hi, I'm a defense contractor!  When my job was "military", it was a 40 man shop, with another 10 -15 "higher ups" running the show.  It cost the DoD a LOT of money.  Now that it's civilian run, it's a 10 man shop with 2 higher ups.  This saves money.  It costs a lot of money to send a guy to school for 10 months, then give him OJT for a year.....especially if he gets out of the military 24 months later.

Civilians are guards at the gate now.  They vacuum the halls at night, cut the grass during the day, fix the expensive stuff when it breaks.

"private military contractors" do a lot of things MUCH cheaper than the govt can, we want to end all that because of what one contractor did during a war?

[Mechaman]

The military itself, the State's loyal lapdog, should be outlawed.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

The military itself, the State's loyal lapdog, should be outlawed.

Then you only have 21 countries to live in:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_without_armed_forces

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Hi, I'm a defense contractor!  When my job was "military", it was a 40 man shop, with another 10 -15 "higher ups" running the show.  It cost the DoD a LOT of money.  Now that it's civilian run, it's a 10 man shop with 2 higher ups.  This saves money.  It costs a lot of money to send a guy to school for 10 months, then give him OJT for a year.....especially if he gets out of the military 24 months later.

Civilians are guards at the gate now.  They vacuum the halls at night, cut the grass during the day, fix the expensive stuff when it breaks.

"private military contractors" do a lot of things MUCH cheaper than the govt can, we want to end all that because of what one contractor did during a war?

Uh, how about the fact the PMCs in New Orleans during Katrina confiscated firearms from the population? Or that they were hired to raid medical marijuana clinics under Bush? Not things that I think a libertarian would be very fond of.

[Scam of God]

The military itself, the State's loyal lapdog, should be outlawed.

Then you only have 21 countries to live in:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_without_armed_forces

I love how you're a libertarian, except when you're not, which is most of the time.

No, private military contractors shouldn't be banned outright. Instead, the government ought to be choked off of defense funds so that it can't afford to hire the illiterate murderous scumbags. It literally ought to have a defense budget of nothing. Of course dead0man will object, because principle is principle, except when it's not.

Typical Republican response: "BAW BAW I HATES ME SUM GUBMINT, CEPT WHEN IT EMPLOYS MY UNEDUCATED REDNECK CUZINS BAW, THEN IT'S OKAY IN MY BOOK!"

[Scam of God]

Hi, I'm a defense contractor!  When my job was "military", it was a 40 man shop, with another 10 -15 "higher ups" running the show.  It cost the DoD a LOT of money.  Now that it's civilian run, it's a 10 man shop with 2 higher ups.  This saves money.  It costs a lot of money to send a guy to school for 10 months, then give him OJT for a year.....especially if he gets out of the military 24 months later.

Civilians are guards at the gate now.  They vacuum the halls at night, cut the grass during the day, fix the expensive stuff when it breaks.

"private military contractors" do a lot of things MUCH cheaper than the govt can, we want to end all that because of what one contractor did during a war?

Uh, how about the fact the PMCs in New Orleans during Katrina confiscated firearms from the population? Or that they were hired to raid medical marijuana clinics under Bush? Not things that I think a libertarian would be very fond of.

Don't worry about it. His entire life's a lie.

[minionofmidas]

Unless the size of the military increases 100 fold, it's not possible.

Yeah. Kids like those opening posts think only of the kind of duties that an army frankly shouldn't outsource - and the Bushies have stepped over what I would consider the line - then think that's all there is to it.

Outlawing "private military contractors" would mean the military couldn't hire carpenters to build new barracks. It would mean it couldn't buy any equipment but would have to produce everything itself. That's an absurd notion, in this time as in any.

Now, I don't know what dead0man is doing. Chances are he's cheaper because he's so shoddy at it. I certainly can't see why the army would want to leave security functions to private contractors, unless it's to lower security standards and/or the working classes' pay (and common soldiers are working class). I sure can see why they would leave their landscaping to landscapers and "repairing expensive stuff" to people whose job is to repair expensive stuff - provided their not making their entire living off the army, couldn't live without the army, in which case pretending they're not part of the army is essentially tax evasion (well, would be if the army had to pay taxes. Though might still be for the owner of that company) and ought to be treated as such. Which brings us back to Blackwater I suppose.

[dead0man]

Hi, I'm a defense contractor!  When my job was "military", it was a 40 man shop, with another 10 -15 "higher ups" running the show.  It cost the DoD a LOT of money.  Now that it's civilian run, it's a 10 man shop with 2 higher ups.  This saves money.  It costs a lot of money to send a guy to school for 10 months, then give him OJT for a year.....especially if he gets out of the military 24 months later.

Civilians are guards at the gate now.  They vacuum the halls at night, cut the grass during the day, fix the expensive stuff when it breaks.

"private military contractors" do a lot of things MUCH cheaper than the govt can, we want to end all that because of what one contractor did during a war?

Uh, how about the fact the PMCs in New Orleans during Katrina confiscated firearms from the population? Or that they were hired to raid medical marijuana clinics under Bush? Not things that I think a libertarian would be very fond of.

Where did I say I agreed 100% with everything every military contractor did anywhere?  Did you even read what I typed?  You made a retarded theory of yours into a poll, clearly not thinking it through.  I explained why you're at idiot and you come back with this?  Maybe you're not ready to discuss things with big people yet?

[dead0man]

Now, I don't know what dead0man is doing. Chances are he's cheaper because he's so shoddy at it.

I fix the expensive stuff.

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I'm not sure why base protection has been outsourced, well, I'm sure it's cheaper, but still, it seems kind of silly to have civilians protect the military.  The cops that pull your over on base are still military, just not the gaurds that check your ID when you enter the base.

[Jake]

Others have shown the problem with BRTD's logic. Obviously no, as long as we have a military, contractors should be used. There's certainly a middle ground between BRTD and the status quo that involves not using them as combatants and holding them to the same standards as normal soldiers. Or just not start wars in other countries. That'd be cool.

[Earth]

For me, it depends on specific duties that are contracted. By and large, though, they're a bad idea.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Hi, I'm a defense contractor!  When my job was "military", it was a 40 man shop, with another 10 -15 "higher ups" running the show.  It cost the DoD a LOT of money.  Now that it's civilian run, it's a 10 man shop with 2 higher ups.  This saves money.  It costs a lot of money to send a guy to school for 10 months, then give him OJT for a year.....especially if he gets out of the military 24 months later.

Civilians are guards at the gate now.  They vacuum the halls at night, cut the grass during the day, fix the expensive stuff when it breaks.

"private military contractors" do a lot of things MUCH cheaper than the govt can, we want to end all that because of what one contractor did during a war?

Uh, how about the fact the PMCs in New Orleans during Katrina confiscated firearms from the population? Or that they were hired to raid medical marijuana clinics under Bush? Not things that I think a libertarian would be very fond of.

Where did I say I agreed 100% with everything every military contractor did anywhere?  Did you even read what I typed?  You made a retarded theory of yours into a poll, clearly not thinking it through.  I explained why you're at idiot and you come back with this?  Maybe you're not ready to discuss things with big people yet?

OK, but this does show the problem with using them in combat right? Your job doesn't involve combat. And we've also seen the lack of accountability. For example take Abu Ghraib. All the idiots involved in that are being court-martialed and were held responsible. Now imagine an Abu Ghraib situation at a prison ran by Blackwater contractors (one has inevitably happened anyway.) Do you think that would be reported or held accountable? No of course not. Furthermore this creates a motivation by Blackwater to cover it up to avoid losing the contract. Hence the many news stories we heard about Blackwater's butchers brutally murdering, raping and torturing innocents. It's systematic, not just a few bad apples.

What the hell makes Blackwater any better than mob contract killers anyway? They both do exactly the same thing.

[dead0man]

Yeah, I'm not a fan of them being used in combat....seems like a road we shouldn't be going down.  Especially offensive operations.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Also if anyone disputes that Blackwater is an organized crime syndicate and hence every person involved with them in any way belonging in jail:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackwater_Worldwide_arms_smuggling_allegations

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

Let's get a bit real about this Blackwater stuff, BRTD.

The only reason the feds aren't going to continue using Blackwater is that Blackwater got caught.  Do you honestly think the fed didn't know what kind of organization Blackwater was until the incident that focused everyone on them.

In fact, the big shots that were being guarded by Blackwater could care less how brutal they were as long as Blackwater was protecting their ass from harm.

Sure, you wanna execute the BW employees, but what about those who sanctioned their behavior?  What do you want to do with them?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Let's get a bit real about this Blackwater stuff, BRTD.

The only reason the feds aren't going to continue using Blackwater is that Blackwater got caught.  Do you honestly think the fed didn't know what kind of organization Blackwater was until the incident that focused everyone on them.

In fact, the big shots that were being guarded by Blackwater could care less how brutal they were as long as Blackwater was protecting their ass from harm.

Sure, you wanna execute the BW employees, but what about those who sanctioned their behavior?  What do you want to do with them?

Let's see, Bush Administration officials? Are you seriously insinuating a liberal thinks they should all get off?

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

Let's get a bit real about this Blackwater stuff, BRTD.

The only reason the feds aren't going to continue using Blackwater is that Blackwater got caught.  Do you honestly think the fed didn't know what kind of organization Blackwater was until the incident that focused everyone on them.

In fact, the big shots that were being guarded by Blackwater could care less how brutal they were as long as Blackwater was protecting their ass from harm.

Sure, you wanna execute the BW employees, but what about those who sanctioned their behavior?  What do you want to do with them?

Let's see, Bush Administration officials? Are you seriously insinuating a liberal thinks they should all get off?

Blackwater only goes back 8 years?  They protected the Bushies, Members of Congress (libs and pubs), state department workers (political and career)........lots of people on all sides knew how bad they were is my point.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Blackwater was founded in 1997. They probably didn't get tons of contracts in those first three years, or rack up a known criminal record.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

My point is, lots of people on both sides knew what we were getting with Blackwater.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

And it was just the Bush Admin that gave them all the no-bid contracts. Besides, look at the political contributions of Blackwater. This clearly isn't a Democratic company.